Paris Hilton, victim of revenge porn?

A sex tape starts spreading across the internet this tiem 20 years ago, featuring a young Paris Hilton and her ex-boyfriend Rick Salmon. The tape would later be packaged and marketed by porn distributor Red Light District as 'One Night In Paris'. At the time it was all anyone in the mainstream media would talk about, we examine the controversy around it and look at how an incident like this might be treated if it happened today.

We also take a look at the life and death of former child star Jonathon Brandis, who passed away tragically this week 20 years ago. We discuss his career and the events leading up to his death. 

Plus we've got all the usual stuff, the weekly charts, Keanu Reeves dominating the box office and much more. 

Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.

Transcript

Transcript is generated automatically

The year is 2003. Tom is your first friend on Myspace. Fiddy cent costs a dollar on iTunes. The Terminator becomes the Governator. And nobody can find those weapons of mass destruction. T-minus 20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. Week of 9th November 2003. T -20. The rest is history. Britney, bitch! T -one minute. Nominate two housemates. If you think your stomach is full of crap, give me a hell. Yeah. That's fine. Welcome to jackass. Yeah. It's time for your healthy dose of nostalgia. Although this week, maybe not so healthy. We'll unpack that a little bit more later in the show. It's T -20, the podcast where we rewind to this week, 20 years ago, all the way back in 2003 with your hosts, Joe and Mel. Hello, Mel. Hi. How are you doing? I'm good. It is a healthy dose of nostalgia in that I think history is something that we can learn from and maybe not do it again and once again, we'll get to that very shortly. But what else is happening this week? We're rewinding to 9 to 15 November in 2003. So many album releases this week. 20 years ago we had one from pink. We had one from Mr.. Stay out of it, Nicolas Cage. Oh, great. Excellent. We're two for two. I'm so excited. What else have we got? A big big movie release as well. Oh yeah. This one. Can Zion be saved tonight?

The future of both worlds will be in your hands or in his. Mr. Anderson. Welcome back. We missed you. It ends tonight. Whoa! So much drama. A matrix, one of the matrixes. Would it be a matrix? Is that the plural of matrix? Matrices. Matrix. I don't know. Well, one of those. Yes, it was a big release. It was a big premiere. And interestingly, this one was released at the same time all around the world. It's one of those ones. Matrix's matrix. Yeah. Well, matrices. Was something that you did in maths? Yeah. I do feel like so. This was a simultaneous global release, which is something that hadn't really happened much except event cinema starts to creep in. So you can thank Star Wars and Lord of the rings and now The Matrix for following suit with that. What else is happening? I think we're gonna have to put a bit of a trigger warning on this show. Yes, there was the release of a tape. We'll get into a bit more detail. Quite an infamous tape and an interesting one to revisit 20 years on. And I wonder if it happened today whether we'd still feel the same way as we did 20 years back. This is not some random guy. This was someone I was with for a few years. You loved. I thought I did, and I can't believe that he would do something like that to me. Yeah, it's.

It was big news at the time. It remains the ripple effect of it is still felt to this day for this particular person. We'll talk about it a lot more later on. We also are talking in the hatches, matches and dispatches segment about a celebrity death this week. And I'll say right up front, now that we are talking about a suicide within today's show. So if you are a little bit sensitive to that, that is happening at the very end of the show and you can feel free to skip past it or just skip it entirely, that's fine by us. It's like I said, it is a sensitive topic, but the one thing I will say is that people don't really talk about this subject that much. I and I have a bit of a problem with the way it's kind of discussed in the media. Now. We will talk about that a little bit more later on in the show. It's going to be light and shade. The other thing that happens in the hatches, matches and dispatches segment is that we obviously identify a birthday, and we do a little bit of a clue about a celebrity that is having a birthday this time 20 years ago. Well, actually know a celebrity that was born, know a. Celebrity that had a birthday this time 20 years ago and is having a birthday this week as well.

I was trying, okay, I'm just going to disarm. I was trying so hard to be sensible about the whole like, high brow nature of the thing. I mean, we're going to handle it all in our usual irreverent manner anyway. A celebrity who's having a birthday this week and did have one this week 20 years ago, as Mel clearly pointed out to me that said this. Anyone, anyone wants to go out and you can come out with me. I'm not picky. Come on. Listen, I don't know why we got to play this game, you know? Let's just get married. Do you want to? He's not picky. Well, you're in with a shot. Everyone's in with a shot. All of us. Me, Mel, everyone's in with a shot. He's not picky. I think a lot of ladies would be happy to hear that, actually. And guys, probably we'll find out who that is at the end of the show. The news for the week commencing. What is it? 9th of November. 9th of November 2003. This actually happened on the 11th of November, I believe. And like we said, there is a bit of a trigger warning. Normally we'd say this show is pretty PG. I don't really know that we can give our show that kind of rating. I guess if you want to have the conversation about sex tapes with your children, that would be fine. It's your life.

But I don't think we can get away with a PG rating. So there is a bit of a trigger warning with this in another segment later on. Like we said, let's go. What happened? A sex tape starts spreading across the internet and in celebrity circles on the 11th of November 2003, copies are being distributed to media outlets, talent agents and PR firms. Yeah, Shannen Doherty had a copy. Pamela Anderson had a copy. Yep. Revealing still shots are published on the internet. The sex tape features Rick Salomon and Paris Hilton. Yeah, I remember this so well. I think everybody who was in their 20s 30s at the time would have remembered this very, very well? And people still remember it to this day. Unfortunately for Paris Hilton, she kind of got a lot of notoriety from this, which was, I don't think, a very good thing to have happened to her. What I find really shocking about this is that it does the rounds with celebrities first and foremost, and PR circles and in the wake, and Pamela Anderson has a copy? And in the wake of what happened with Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee, nobody does anything about it. Nobody seeks to kind of put a lid on it. They just are aware of it. And I'm sure somewhere along the line, I can't imagine.

Pamela Anderson, for example, would see something like this happening and go, oh my God, I'm just going to let it happen. Like I feel like she would have said something, particularly. What she said more recently about everything that happened with her at the time and how she's come out more recently with with the impact that that had on her? Yeah, it's interesting the way it was distributed. So Paris, I think she was 19 at the time. She is dating Rick, professional poker player, 13 years older than her. He pulls out a video camera and sets it up to record while they're having sex. It's shot through a grainy night vision filter. She released a memoir earlier this year, and I've been reading it, and in it, she says that she doesn't remember too much about the night that it occurred. But she did say throughout their relationship it was something that he brought up quite often with her, that he's had other women and other girlfriends. They've made tapes. Yeah, he'd like to do it with her. Let's make. It. Well, I mean, it's it's it's naughty. It's I mean, I'm sure it's very titillating amongst consenting adults. Like, if you want to go and make one go for your life, go for it. But, I mean, you know, common sense also prevails in this situation. She told him that she felt weird, uncomfortable. Can't do it. That's too embarrassing.

And she said that he kept pushing. He said it was just for them. Don't worry. No one else is ever going to see it. Just us. Just you and me. Just us. And that if she didn't do it, I can find someone else who would. Was was his attitude towards it? She felt that she wasn't really capable of the level of trust required to make that tape. So she had a few drinks and she took Quaaludes. Quaaludes, Quaaludes, Quaaludes. That's a type of drug. I'm assuming they're like. I think they're downers. That also brings into question whether you are able to make consent appropriately. Exactly. Make the proper call from a judgment point of view as to whether or not you should or shouldn't make a sex tape. This week, 20 years ago, the tape is leaked online. Well, a part of the tape, allegedly by Rick and shortly before the December premiere of her reality show, The Simple Life. She's in Australia, and this is the week that she met Rob Mills, M.C. from. Australian Idol. From Australian Idol, and we were all celebrating Mills in Paris. This is excellent. I hope they get married. I hope they have a family, two great legends together coming together. She's in Australia, she's picked up, she's single and ready to mingle and. Shows Mills at the Matrix premiere. In fact. Really, they. Went to The Matrix. That's where he met her at the premiere.

And then they were at the races, the Melbourne Cup. That's right. They went to the Melbourne Cup. Yes. I mean, she had an amazing hat and they were hanging out and I just thought that was fantastic. Lots of people. Hook up at the end of the Melbourne Cup. That's again, that's another event that involves way too much drinking and poor behaviour. So. So she's in Australia, she's hanging out with Mills, but then she gets the news from her manager. He phones her up and says Paris, there's a 37 second clip on the internet of you having relations. Yeah. Her initial thought was not me, I haven't. No, no, someone's made some fake video and they've put it up. And then she stopped. She thought for a bit and then realised it was what she'd filmed with Rick a few years earlier. I just I. Just felt so betrayed. This was not some random guy. This was someone I was with for a few years that you loved. I thought I did, and I can't believe that he would do something like that to me. This is not what I planned. I didn't want to be known as that. And it's now when people look at me, they think that I'm something I'm not, just because of one incident one night with someone who I was in love with. People assume, oh, she's a slut just because of one thing that happened to me.

And it's it's hard because I'll never. I'll have to live with that for the rest of my life and explain it to my children. And it's it's something that just changed my life forever. And I'll never. Able to erase it. She said. Literally overnight, her entire life changed. It was on every news station, every talk show. She jumped on a plane back to America after she found out she was on the plane, and she was really upset. This is also in her memoir. I was reading, she was quite upset on the plane, and she was sitting next to a woman, and the woman could see that she was upset behind her sunglasses and says to her, are you okay? What's going on? And she sort of started talking to her. And the woman was really lovely and really kind and caring. She was saying so she told her, she told her what was going on? And then a couple of days later in the tabloids, that. Woman. That woman sold that story to the tabloids. And Paris's comment was, well, I hope your kids went to a good college for that article because her mum said, what are you doing? Doing interviews about this Paris? We haven't even spoken. And Paris said, I haven't done any interviews. I was on the flight home. They'd planted someone on the. Plane needing somebody to talk to. Planted someone on the plane to get the story out. Really.

So the so that lady that was on the plane, pretty sure she confided in, actually worked for the newspaper. If it wasn't. A plant, it was somebody who quickly realized they could make a buck out of it. Either way, isn't that just horrendous? That's scandalous, isn't it? That's terrible. Wow. She she was across all the talk shows. You could imagine. The late night talk shows had a field day. The stand up comedians. It was across all the news channels. Well, because it's this rich, seemingly entitled girl that that people. And I think it's the tall poppy syndrome. We're very good at it in Australia, where we like to cut down those who are more successful than us, it's it's shout and proud? Is that how you say it? Schadenfreude. Schadenfreude. I don't know, but she was someone that everyone loved to hate. It was I, I remember the line was, you're just famous for being famous. What have you actually done besides being rich? That was the narrative around her. And she was this out-of-control party girl with all this money and she was a bimbo and all. So they had a field day when this was released. It's the biggest. Story of all that everyone's talking about the Paris Hilton sex tape. That's what really people are. Paris Hilton. Paris Hilton made a sex tape and everyone's talking about it.

Everywhere I go, people are talking about this Paris Hilton sex tape, and everyone knows the tape is out there. But what they want to know is when they'll actually be able to see it. When. With that in mind, folks, let's go now to Joe Arroyo in our late night sex tape forecaster Center. Joe. Thank you, thank you Conan. Now the Paris Hilton sex tape is coming out of here. Northern Hollywood area of Los Angeles. It's been gathering strength for the past few days. How poor parents? Can you imagine how they must have felt? Paris Hilton's parents that she did a porno film in a marriott hotel. I mean, it is just. That was Joan Rivers. Classy as always. Look, that's kind of a funny joke, I have to say, but that's only an example of some of the stuff that happened. She was, I believe, relentlessly bullied throughout the media. She's been bullied throughout the media for pretty much all of her life. I think in 2006, there's more stuff that happens with her and people like Letterman and that just go to town on her, and we've seen this as well. When you watch the if just go sideways a little bit, the Pamela Anderson documentary, which was on Netflix, you watch that and she talks about how when she went on Leno and everyone and people were always making jokes about? And she played up to that, Pamela Anderson.

But at the same time, I think she did that because that was kind of her meal ticket as well. It's it's I don't. Know, what can you do? Because if you're in the entertainment industry and you have to promote a movie or your music or whatever it is that you're doing, that you make your livelihood on, you can't just go to ground and not do the circuit anymore. So you've got to kind of suck it up. And I think they know that, and that's why they ask these horrendous questions in interviews. Or they trap them into saying they'll be on the show if they don't ask them the question. And then once you're on live TV, you cannot do a single thing about it. That's an example of some of the shows. But there was I remember even and I think even on the radio, like Paris Hilton became a catchcry for, dare I say, very slutty behavior. And I think it didn't help at the time, the way that the media portrayed her. But also we're talking about early 2000 paparazzi. Do you remember when young girls, her Britney, any actresses, whenever they would climb into cars, they would stick their cameras up their skirts and take photos to see if they were wearing underwear, and if they weren't wearing underwear, they would label them as a tramp or a slut or a whore? Yeah, when they're the ones shoving cameras up their skirts.

So there'll be a school of thought here from conservatives as well that will say, well, why don't you just wear underwear? Okay. Why don't you just not put a camera up my skirt? But also a lot of the outfits that they wore and they had very toned figures and all of that sort of stuff. If you wear underwear, it ruins. You get the VPL, it ruins you. This is early 2000. How low can you go with your low jeans? And that's that's the fashion of the day. Late 90s, early 2000 has a lot to answer for. They were very much victims of the toxicity of the time. Yes. I think South Park as well did an episode, and I think it was where all the young girls in the town wanted to become like Paris, and they were selling a playset called the Stupid Spoiled Whore Video Playset. And the whole episode was about how terrible, what a terrible example she is. And all of the children were, were being brainwashed by Paris Hilton. And it was pretty, I mean, typical South Park, but imagine. Yeah, imagine seeing yourself represented like that. You would never want to see yourself on an episode of South Park, ever. I mean, the thing with South Park is it's very much no holds barred. Like everything, everything and anything is fair game. And you've got to watch South Park through that lens.

However, put yourself in the shoes of the person who has just had a sex tape released to the world, who's got a really high profile, who has not consented to this, who has not consented to this? At the time as well. Her reality show, The Simple Life with Nicole Richie was about to debut. So this is happening in November, and The Simple Life debuted early December. So in the lead up to that, they're doing the circuit. They're promoting the show because it was quite groundbreaking for a reality show, and it was a great concept. So they were doing the interviews, the talk show. Circuits and the talk show circuit or the talk shows are fiercely competitive. So as much as she might appear on any and each of them and all of them, every single show is looking to get a moment with her where they can have that promo, that that soundbite or that clip that is her. Either, you know, breaking down or doing something that talks about the elephant in the room. Yes, yes. So they were all trying to get her. She had to stop. She had to stop doing media because that's all they wanted to ask about. Nicole Richie had to stop doing media as well, because when she did interviews, that's all they were asking her about as well.

So she was really worried about the impact it would have on the show because there was so much money poured into the marketing and promo and the lead up to that show, and all she could think of is, well, are people actually going to watch it now, now that this has come to light? She did, however, do one appearance. Yes, with Jimmy Fallon and just Jimmy Fallon. A lot of people question his sincerity. I think this had something to do with why Jimmy Fallon became the next big thing in Tonight Shows. Because of the way. He handles his interactions with celebrities. He's very much on the level with them and he's very kind to them. And when he did this sketch with Paris, I thought it was quite extraordinary. So your family, I. Don't know if a lot of people know the Hiltons own hotels all over the world, right? Yes. They're in New York, London, Paris. Oh, wait, so it actually is a Paris Hilton? Yes there is. Is it hard to get into the Paris Hilton? Actually, it's a very exclusive hotel, no matter what you've heard. I hear the Paris Hilton is very beautiful. I'm glad that you've heard that. Do they allow double occupancy at the Paris Hilton? No. Is the Paris Hilton Rumi? It might be for you, but most people find it very comfortable. Well, I'm a VIP, all right. I may need to go in the back entrance.

It doesn't matter who you are. It's not going to happen. Fair enough, fair enough. Okay, now I throw a lot of events. Do they have a ballroom there? We do. Great. Well, I'd love to have my balls held by the Paris Hilton. Great. Sounds awesome. I'd actually. I'd like to check in to the Paris Hilton. I don't think you can, really. Because really, I'll only be able to stay there, like, a minute and a half. Two minutes, tops. I mean. Good luck. Thank you. Paris Hilton, everybody. Thank you. We love you. I'm Jimmy Fallon. Good night. So that was in December. That that episode of Saturday Night Live. So the difference with that and I know it's still there's double entendres and all that sort of stuff is she was involved like from the start. She was involved in the in on the joke. She said it was a risk, but she felt that it was brilliant. And I think it was a way for her to to respond to what was happening, but in her own way? So it wasn't someone hitting her with the uncomfortable questions, but it was her responding in her own Paris Hilton type way, but still maintaining her dignity and kind of having the opportunity to speak her truth in a way, I think. Yeah, I think so as well.

I mean, it almost speaks to the fact that, you know, even with those double entendres, just because there was an intimate moment with her released with somebody that was somebody she trusted, like, it's she's not available to every single Tom, Dick and Harry, for want of a better word. That's that's interested in her. Like, she's not this slut that the media and, and the chat forums and everything else at the time would suggest. That wasn't all that I was suggesting. They were suggesting that she was the one that leaked the tape in the lead up to The Simple Life premiering. I'm Diana Falzone and this is your Breaktime. Paris Hilton is still recovering from her one night in Paris. And no, she didn't just visit France, the Sex tape star told The Telegraph that she's reeling with the ramifications of the sex tape and can never fully trust a man again because of it. Paris made the tape with then boyfriend Rick Salomon. Well, Paris. Considering it's impossible for adult entertainment companies to distribute your tape without your signature and a valid form of picture ID, it's highly unlikely you were hoodwinked here. In reality, you're still collecting residuals and now singing a swan song because your former bestie Kim Kardashian got a better result from her soul tape. Noticed I didn't say leaked. That's a couple of years later. That sound bite from Fox News. But I wouldn't expect anything less from Fox News anyway.

The the insinuation that she would have done it for profit, I think is irresponsible. I think that she obviously was very smart about it after the fact. One of the parties, Rick Sullivan, had released this, he'd sold it and she, I believe, received something in the vicinity of $400,000. I mean, at this and at this stage, I will say she that tape was doing the rounds anyway, it was out there regardless. So what are you going to do? You can't. And like the Pamela Anderson Tommy Lee case would have approves the fact that once you take the lid off the bottle, you can't stuff the genie back in. So you might as well make the best out of a very, very bad situation. She was saying that it actually cost her even, even though there was, I think, some residuals at some point. So at this point it's just a clip that's leaked. Right? So this isn't the release of the video. The release of the video on the internet and on DVD doesn't happen till 2004. Right. But that's Fox. Grab. That Fox grab is talking about the the release of the DVD. Yeah that's right. But that was the narrative across the media at this time in 2003, was that it was a publicity stunt. It was purely publicity for her because she's just famous for being famous, and she has to keep everyone talking about her.

And this was a really nice way to get her name across the media. In the lead up to the debut of The Simple Life, she denies that she not only did it cost her a lot of money, even worse, it it cost her almost devastated and cost her her family relationships. Her parents were absolutely mortified, and I think that had a strained relationship over the years. And she just that's just sort of started to come back together and meant that relationship. She was saying that it was so embarrassing. She's got I think she's got younger brothers as well. Yeah. Her sister Nicky was saying that because they lived in an apartment complex where newspapers would be dropped outside the door. She would get up early in the morning and go and turn all the newspapers over, because they would have Paris's name across the front of them. And she didn't want the family to see it. The newsstand where they bought ice cream for the kids, had a poster up, and she went and ripped it down like it. It absolutely devastated her family. So. And also, like, I can see where she says it would cost her money because in spite of having, you know, an up front payment for the release of that DVD and residuals or whatever, think about the potential income that she could have earned, lost. Endorsements.

Had that not been released, like she's had to clamber back her entire life from that moment in time. And I'll get to more about why I love Paris Hilton shortly. But she's had to fight. For every inch of her life that she's had. After that. I know she's rich and she's got a high profile and all that sort of stuff, but we're not in the business of cutting tall poppies down here. It's not her fault that that's the life that she was born into. I'm ashamed to say, at the time I did, I did buy into what the media was saying. I did think that she did leak it. I did think that for a long time. And it wasn't until a few years ago when I started reading into it a little bit more, and particularly after watching the Pamela Anderson one, An American Meme, the the doco that Paris was involved with, the. Documentary, not the sex tape, the Pamela. Yes. Yeah. Look, it wasn't until then that I was like, hang on a minute. I don't I don't think she did this. And I'm ashamed to say that at the time I thought that because I bought into what the media was saying. To be fair, and it's understandable as to why you would buy into that, because it wasn't just the conservative side of media that was saying that it was coming from the left and the right.

Like you look at all those talk shows, you've got Conan O'Brien there talking about it. Leno, Letterman, Saturday Night Live, I think handled it probably better than anyone. And that's why I was saying why I think Jimmy Fallon is where he is now, because he does that. He's on the level with a lot of celebrities, but every single comedian, commentator, journalist was portraying that narrative that she had actually done this to get attention. She has a. Very interesting take on that as well. She said that she feels that that's what people told themselves to justify going out and buying it and watching it like that's that's how they reconciled the fact that they were watching this. She also said in her book that and I think this is a really valid point. If she was involved, she would have owned it. She does. She owns it when she does something that's ridiculous or outrageous or over the top, she takes responsibility and she owns it. Look at her first album. She owns it. Yeah. She said she would have licensed it. She would have capitalized on it. She would have said the lighting would have been better. She would have had a hair and makeup and her wardrobe done. Absolutely. Angles and editing would have been a lot more flattering, and she certainly wouldn't have had the poor taste to dedicate it to the victims of the September 11th terrorist attacks. Oh my.

God, did you know that really. Happened? It was dedicated to 9/11 victims who. Did that, the company that distributed it or Rick Salomon? Rick or the. Yeah, the. Distributor, he says. And this was we fast forward to 2004 very quickly. He says in an interview then that the tape was stolen. So he takes on the same story that Tommy Lee and Pamela. Tommy stolen. From a safe in his house, and then they made a copy and distribute it. Why does he still have it? So they've broken up their long broken up. Why does he still have it? Because that's all he's got. Why did he make it like a guy? Is a piece of crap? Did anyone stop in 2003 and go? We're all saying that Paris is taking advantage here. Did anyone stop and go? Who is this Rick clown? Yeah. Why? Why did he record one of the most famous women in the world when he's kind of? I think he was married to Shannen Doherty and he plays poker. He married. He married Pamela Anderson as well. Twice. Twice. Which just shocks me to the very core that? But did anyone stop and go? You know what? Maybe it's not Paris taking advantage. Maybe it's this poker playing clown who's kept this videotape in a safe, allegedly, after they've broken up. What is the point of him retaining it? Yeah. This is a guy that makes a career out of high stakes gambling.

Like he's just, you know. Yeah. How much can you trust him? And how come everyone did trust him? He tried to sue the Hiltons as well. The family? Yeah, he tried to sue the guy, he reckoned who stole it. Yeah. And he said that that was the guy that put it on the internet. In 2003, he tried to sue the Hiltons because of a statement that the Hilton family put out shortly after saying that she was. I think they said that she was coerced and she was under the influence, and he was saying that that was all false. So he was trying to sue them for millions over that statement. Yeah, yeah. Sounds like a stand up guy. Piece of work, doesn't he? Yeah. Well, then he starts his own internet company in 2004. So about six months after the fact, 6 or 7 months after the fact starts his own internet site that sells a new, longer color version of his escapade with Paris. Like, I think it goes for like 40 minutes or something, and it's like $50 and they're doing live screenings of it on the internet, which is like, I mean, you got to have a pretty good data plan back in the early 2000 to be able to watch 40 minutes of anything in any kind of definition, really, um, wasn't great.

And then and then he had the height to say that he didn't feel bad towards Paris at all, which I think was a way for him to exonerate himself from any guilt. So he was like, nah, she had a really good life. She enjoyed her life. It hasn't ruined it in any way. And it kind of ruined my life, which is why I'm capitalizing on it. And this is like, this is just ruined. Your career, your poker playing career. This is just level wizard level narcissism. That's what this is. She called him because when she found. Found out that he was going to release it in 2004. She called him and begged him not to do it. He said, it's too late, it's already out there, and that he had every right to sell something that belonged to him, belonged to him, something that had a lot of financial value. Yeah, yeah. It's revolting, you know, and this is not something that just went away in 12 months. You look at it now like it's so funny now because we're in this culture now where people just will send nudes and photos of themselves all the time, and every second person's got an OnlyFans and they're selling their bodies on the internet all the time. And back then. But they're in control of it too. Well, 100%. And that's empowering, or so to speak, until you've got to tell your kids, you know.

Anyway, I just I think it's weird, but like, this didn't happen then. And so this, this shaming of her has gone on for I think it still goes on to this day, probably to a lesser extent, because a lot of people have woken up to what the world is actually like. But I do think that that's gone for a long time. And it's not just men who have shamed Paris Hilton, it's other women as well? Other women have been so vitriolic towards her. Yeah, and I'm talking about people like Sienna miller, for example. Who you? Beautiful, wholesome. Sienna miller W magazine, 2004. Do I look anything like a fucking Hilton sister is what she says? That's a direct quote and says, yeah, and check me out on the internet having sex. Like obviously using her as an example to extol her own virtuousness, I guess. Blake Lively Ryan Reynolds misses, turns around and says, I don't go to clubs, I don't party, I don't dance on tables, and I don't like sex tapes. Three years later, her nude photos got posted online without her permission. Isn't that interesting? I think even pink, who we love. Yeah, I went back and watched this video clip today, and I'm surprised that maybe pink hasn't said anything about this in hindsight. So stupid girls, the song Stupid Girls.

I remember her parodying Jessica Simpson washing the car, and I remember her being Paris on the flip phone while she was driving and having an accident. I completely forgot that she mimicked the sex tape. Yeah, in that video clip. Yes, indeed. And she said, oh, I can't even remember the lyric, but there was a lyric around it, I think. I feel like that was satire, commentary and it's pop culture commentary. This is a thing. Everyone was talking about it. We're talking about it now. We are, we are. And that's okay, because it became this big moment in time, I think, look, I can't it would be hypocritical of me not to do all this talking about it and not confess to having seen some of that video. So I've seen some of it, right? I don't want to get into the circumstances as to how I've seen it, except for the fact that a lot of the big adult stores were clients of the radio station at the time, and and there were posters out the front. That's right. There were posters out the front of the adult stores in Canberra. Canberra was the only place where in Australia we can get X-rated videos legally. And there were posters out the front with Paris Hilton's face on them. Of those adult stores. Anyway, they were clients. I saw a few minutes of it. And what was your take?

Did it look like she was a willing participant? Did it look like she was maybe doing it for the publicity? I didn't even really get into that. Like it was that night vision stuff, right? But but like I looked at it, I'm 27 years old at the time and I'm watching it, and she is 18 or 19 years old, I think, and I felt terribly uncomfortable looking at it. I didn't find it in any way, shape or form titillating or anything like that. And I was like, I can't watch this, I cannot watch this. This is I it just felt wrong. Like it just felt wrong. She's like 18, 19 years old. Yeah. Like she is a child. Yeah. Okay. And and I just think somebody should have got in. And if it was today, I think somebody. Would have a? Very big trouble. For that. Imagine if that happened today. Would we view Paris Hilton in the same way, or would we be saying how disgraceful would we be sticking up for her? Would we be supporting her? Would he be in trouble with the law through? Solomon should be in jail. And what's it called? The revenge porn laws, where you can't distribute explicit images or videos without consent of people that are in them in order to coerce them or damage their reputation or for financial gain. So I think by that definition, that would actually come in under revenge porn laws.

Well, she was coerced. He did gain financially for it, you know. I mean, and he did destroy her. Her image. Yes, I agree, damaged her. Reputation. What I find strange about that is those revenge porn laws only came in very, very recently? I think in the act it was around 2017, 2018. And, and I think that was quite act was quite progressive as far as that goes. If you're going to watch pornography, I feel like if you're going to make that step to go and watch pornography one night in Paris, the video is is not where you want to start. You want to go and have a look at some paid performers who have been working very hard on their art and their bodies? Lighting good hair. Good makeup with some solid production values. Not something that is like an 18 year old girl that looks like she's being filmed on silence of the lambs with night vision. Like it's just it was actually quite terrifying. But yeah, if you're going to dip your toe into the world of pornography and as a as a passive consumer of that, that is not where you want to start or really finish if. Well, that's a poor choice of words. But you know what I'm saying? It's just it's just all kinds of wrong. Yeah. I really admire Paris Hilton, and I know a lot of people will be like, what are you talking about, man?

And it's like she is, I think, the embodiment of resilience. Yeah. She the stuff that she has been through in the public eye, starting with this. Well, not even starting with the sex tape, starting with the. Abuse. That she endured at that boarding school that she's recently come out about and talked about in the media and also gone to court over going through that, then she's 18, 19. She gets taken advantage of by a guy. What was he, 17 years older than her, 13 years old, 13 years older than her making that sex tape, having that come out and at 18, 19 years old, being dragged across the headlines for years internationally and still being able to maintain some sort of dignity and self-respect and, and she holds her head pretty high? And also, anyone who thinks that Paris Hilton is Paris Hilton is ridiculous. Paris Hilton is a character that she has invented to take control of her own life, I think. I think that she is the poster girl for resilience. I you look at some of the some of the celebrities that we have lost over the years, and we'll talk about one of them in particular, who just couldn't cope with fame and didn't wasn't even subjected to anything like what Paris Hilton was subjected to and took their own life. They didn't make it like it's a wonder that she wasn't a headline as well, but she held her head high.

She got through it. She managed to build a lot of bridges, and she's still alive and kicking to this day. And I think she's fabulous. I think she's a wonderful person. And she's also giving back. She went to she went to Congress and. As she testified in court. Yeah. And managed to get compensation for the victims of that institutional abuse at that school. And I think she came pretty close to either bringing it completely to justice or shutting it down. But I'd have to go back and do a bit more research. I was kind of just looking at the sex tape this week, and I don't like how that sounds either. But anyway, you know what I mean. The change of pace now as we get into some sport. 10th of November Kim Clijsters becomes the first female tennis player to earn $4 million in one season after she wins the WTA Tour Championship. Breaks to love, defends the title and keeps the world number one spot in the rankings. Justine just fizzling out at the end. A tough, emotional match. Kim Clijsters triumphant, five seven, six four, six two. The seventh title of the year, 17th in her career. Takes a little while longer. Still the number one, Jeff. Oh. I'm not exactly sure if that was the match, but it was a match in 2003 that. She sounded like she did. Well, yeah, she did. So we'll go with that.

That was it for that component. So she obviously earned the 4 million across the whole season for that component, the WTA, she earned just over a million. And throughout 2003, she held number one rankings for both the singles and the doubles simultaneously, which I think was a bit of a record as well. Yeah, yeah, she was injured a lot too. Like, she, she like, lost a lot of her desire to compete at in 2007, I think she was 23 years old and she wanted to get married and have a daughter and stuff. So she kind of just dipped out of the sport. But she came back a couple of years later and then won a second US open. So she's she's had quite a run and then she's kind of gone off the boil and then she's come back again, which is just a remarkable story, a great comeback story. ESPN and all those other sporting networks love that kind of stuff. And she became the first mother to be the world number one, I think, because she returned after having her child. She also holds the record for the most Grand Slam singles titles won as a mother, and was the first to win one since Evonne Goolagong Cawley in 1980. But she did retire again in 2012, I think, and then had another comeback in early 2020, which ended in 2022. That's enough Kim, that's enough. You've had enough. You've had more.

Any more than one comeback? A very big. Career, isn't. It? I mean, at least. Yeah. And you know, they've got lots of highlights packages and all that sort of stuff. So you've had you've had plenty of you've had your turn. Exactly. Plenty of packages. You've had your turn. It's time to move on. All right, let's see what was on the charts or in music, I guess this week, 20 years ago? Yeah. Let's kick it off with the US charts. Right. I'm here. Lonely. And I dream about you all the time. I'm here without you, baby. You don't give a damn. Gonna throw it up. If you don't give a damn. Don't throw it. If you don't give a damn. Go, go! Begin! What you doing? I'm chilling at the Holiday Inn. When you drink, go with your friends? We don't do well on each other and sip on some here. One thing leading to another. Let the party begin. Stop! Drop car. When I move, you move just like that? When I move, you move just like that? When I move, you move just like hell? Yeah. Hey, bring that back. On my mind. Fulfill my fate. Come on. Tell me how you feel. I think about you all the time I see you in my dream. Yet another busy day goes by without. I mentioned this last week, but we had too much to talk about. But there's white people in the charts. Everybody.

It's very noticeable, isn't it? It really is. It's like they stick out like a dog's proverbial going. To school naked or something, isn't it? Exactly. Oh my God, I thought it was sports day. A warmer sports uniform on. Anyway, here without you. Three doors down. Number five. Yes. Damn. Youngbloods feat. Little. Yeah. John. Holiday Inn by Chingy. Which we did prove you can nursery rhyme? That one just. Across the board. There's always a nursery rhyme that you can match up with the cheeky will it? Nursery rhyme? Yes it will. Yeah. Luna. Stand up number two. And Beyonce still in at number one with baby boy. Yeah, but we didn't talk about three doors down last week. Too busy nursery rhyming. So let's have a little bit of a chat about Here Without You, which is the third single from their second studio album, away From the Sun. Yeah, it peaks at number five. It goes. No further. No, it goes no further. It will remain. It shall remain there. Or a little bit further back. It was certified double platinum in the US, selling over 2 million units. Also successful, around the world peaked at number two here in Australia, number ten in Denmark, the Netherlands and New Zealand. The inspo for the song was Brad's now ex-wife. Were they the ones that did hang on? Were they the ones that did Kryptonite? Was that them three doors down?

I think that was their biggest song, wasn't it? Yes. Okay. Because the inspo for that was super. Super man or. What kills Superman? Yeah. So what's the inspo for this one? Well, it was Brad's now ex-wife. Don't think she was ex at the time. And he said it was. It's about being away from someone or missing them. Yeah. Here. Without you, it doesn't matter because you're still thinking of them one more time, right? Yeah. It's about loneliness and missing someone. If you couldn't pick that up by the lyrics yourself. Out on the road might be a. Bit obvious, but. Doing three Doors Down shows on the three Doors Down tour, and he's missing his. I still think. They sound like Matchbox 20. Yeah, they do a little bit. If you are a fan of Three Doors Down and bands of similar ilk, yeah, next year is going to be a big year. Creed's taking three doors down. Is Creed three Doors Down Buckcherry tonic? Was that if you could only see? Yeah. That's tonic. Yes. Tonic. Vertical horizon. What was their song? That is the stupidest name for a band ever. What was their song Vertical horizon? What was the song? Come on, come on. Oh, no. Can't help you. Oh, fuel. What was fuel? Song. Fuel was Shima. Shima? Aren't these songs all the same? Yeah. Shima. Verve. Pipe. Yeah. What were they? I don't know, I don't know.

It is the hot AC radio rock. This, this. I don't know whether this is like. No, but wait, wait, it's not just a concert. It's a Klu Klux Klan rally. This all white people and white bands there? No, it's a frickin cruise. It's a cruise from Miami through the Bahamas aboard the Norwegian Pearl. And if you're one of the first, I think if you buy the first 50 tickets or 100 tickets, Creed will let you have your have a photo with them. Really? Fuck. Fire the torpedoes. Seriously, man the lifeboats. Best I ever had. Vertical horizon. What's I don't I don't know how that sounds called best I ever had. Bring it up on your phone and play it. You really want. Me to do that? Well, I don't know it. Yeah, and I haven't prepared for it. Okay, here we go. Special K is protein, fiber, iron, sweat for. Short skirts are back. So you can spend less time thinking about eating. Well. I don't have a paid subscription. You used to look great in a mini. I think your cups full. It sure is okay to me. Skip to the chorus. Got that wingy. Wingy. Yeah. So it's the wingy. It's the wingy boat tours. They did have Veruca Salt on that. Oh no. They have Louise from Veruca Salt on all of Veruca Salt. So it wasn't. Veruca Salt, Veruca. Salt song. Seether. Oh, that was a great song. Yeah. That's the.

What are they doing on the cruise? Well, you know, adding a healthy dose of dose. Adding a healthy dose of credibility. Yeah. Not not really because it's not even the whole band. It's just like one random member. Oh, she was good. She was good. Band member. Oh, God. I couldn't think of anything worse. Summer of 99 is the name of the cruise. I could. Not think of anything worse than being stuck on a boat with with Creed. Freese. Three Doors Down, Buckcherry, fuel fans, you know, that would just imagine. I could smell it. Now I know exactly what it smells like. Bonus ball. Links Africa, Bacardi and vomit. Oh, can we move on to another release before I throw up? I'm getting seasick and I'm not even on a ship. Number one in Australia and the UK this week 20 years ago. Our kills. Yes. Lollipop. The lollipop man theme. Come on and dance with me. Yeah. Slow. Keep the beat and move over the body. Yeah. Slow. Have you ever? Had the lollipop man shake? The slow sign at you. Oh, really? I obviously wasn't going slow enough. I'm sure I was going slow, but not slow enough. The lollipop man actually shook the slow sign at me as I drove past. I was so embarrassed. I felt so bad. I wanted to go back and apologize, but it just seemed a bit too angry. So you know, it's bad.

It was a tough gig standing out in the sun all day. I know I do not want to disappoint the lollipop guy. I felt so terrible anyway. Kylie Minogue. This was the lead single from her ninth studio album, Body Language. It's an 80s inspired electropop synth pop certified. There's a lot of eight bit video game style sounds in that particular tune. Yeah. Certified platinum in Australia. It's the video that I love. I was watching that again today. Oh my. God. Oh, the Spanish swimming pool. It's in a public swimming pool. It's like some famous public swimming pool in Barcelona. Yeah, and it's just semi-naked. Beautiful people all lying on their beach towels, gyrating to the 80s pop synth with Kylie had clothes on. She had a I think she had a Balenciaga blue dress. Looked amazing. But everyone else. Men are in Speedos, women are in bikinis, and they're just just beautiful people wiggling around. Which is bullshit, because if you were in a public swimming pool in Spain in the middle of the day, like this, was it, you would be surrounded by a bunch of fat old Spanish men with toenail fungus? That's what you would experience. Really? Yes. How do you know? You get a nasty fungal infection. Because I've been to public swimming pools in the middle of the day. And, look, it doesn't matter if it's Spanish or not. They are the same the world over.

And the only people that go to public swimming pools in the middle of the day, unless it's on a weekend and they always. Want to chat, can we just make a rule that when you're at the pool, do not talk to anyone. If you're there to swim laps or sit in the sauna? Just no. I hate it when people start a conversation with me when I'm in talks because I feel like I'm semi-naked and if someone starts talking to me, I was in the sauna one day and some old bloke starts chatting to him. No, I'm sorry, I cannot participate in a conversation when I'm only in my lycra swimsuit. This is just. No, no. You call it a sauna. I call it a fungal incubator. I reckon you know the show The Last of Us. How the how the fungus, the spores take over the human race, where they start people into clickers? I reckon that's where it's going to happen. That's going to be ground zero to be a public swimming pool, sauna. And the quadriceps will mutate and get a few degrees hotter. And all of a sudden we'll all have our brains controlled by spores and turn into flesh eating monsters. And the outdoor pools are actually worse than the indoor ones, because everyone's wearing sunscreen so they don't get burnt. And there's like a film, like there's greasy film across the top of the water from all the sunscreen foul. So.

So, you know, great song, Kylie Minogue. But as far as the public swimming pool vibe goes, I'm having none of it. It wasn't. Very believable. Absolutely not. Stay away. Album releases. Now all we had so many. Let's start with the third album for pink. Try this, featuring this single. Australian Holly Valance, who ditched her producer for a tanning salon. Brad. Yeah. Brad. Brad. Brad. This is her second and final album, State of Mind, which had the title track, State of Mind. Getting too much, you know? It's just gonna stay. That. I don't think that's even her singing. But anyway, that feels. Like a cross between Kylie and Danny. It feels like Kylie's synth pop and Danny's vocals. I know. It's very. I don't hate. It. It's very derivative. I know you probably don't hate it, but when I was watching the film clip and I've just turned into one of these old guys, right? Was she at a pool? She's wearing a cut up. She's fronting a band and she's like, rocking out, but she's wearing a cut up Ramones shirt. And I just found myself being one of those old guys going, name one member of the Ramones. I don't reckon she could. But anyway, what else have we got here? Kid Rock brought out his sixth studio album. I feel like making. Oh, that's like somebody playing bad company in a caravan park.

He's just completely stripped all of the decent ness out of the Bad Company song and turned it into trash. I don't mind kid Rock. That was a self-titled album, by the way. That's why. Yeah, I. Don't mind him when he's not, you know, being the opening act at a Trump rally, but. Was he? I don't think so. But I feel like that's something that could possibly happen in the future. Oh, well, maybe he'll go on the cruise with Creed. He. Yeah. Yeah, he definitely. Although I feel like he'd probably be in a rubber zodiac with a boombox just driving behind the cruise ship, perhaps. Anyway. Oh, okay. X 98 degrees. Nick Lachey has gone solo. This is the name of the album, isn't it? Solo? Like, not one word. Not light on the fears so you can slam it down. Not everybody's favorite fizzy lemon tree. Hard to be a solo man. Not that make the others follow. Yes. No soul as in s o u l o with a big o and the one word solo. I'm going solo. Talking about, like, white guys in the charts. Is this cultural appropriation? Like, I'm going to say, yes. This is like the whitest of white guys doing a solo. He thinks he's R&B. He's not. No, he's not at all. Stay out of it, Nick Lachey. Yes, exactly. Exactly. Great advice. You've got no place here anyway. You did it.

So the first release, and I think everyone was expecting big things from this because obviously the Nick and Jessica newlyweds thing, they're all over. I was going to break him. No, but the media said stay. Out of it, Nicholas. Well, his first single, Shut up! Have you got that one? Sort of. Shut up! Yes. So much soul. So much. Shut up. So much. Soul. I feel like the backing band aren't being paid enough there. That didn't even chart. Well, they didn't even make it into the top 100. The film clip had Dax Shepard in it. What? Why? Well, he was. I don't understand. He was only doing stuff like punked and that he hadn't really started making movies at this stage. But like, hey, Dax, have got a great, got a great punked joke. Just go and dance in the back, Hollywood. You got that. Clowns video. Clip. Take the work when you can get it. Yeah that's true. The second single did do okay, mainly because I think it was the title track of the newlyweds show and. I will love. To forever. Until death do us part. We'll be together. Take my hand. Until death do us part. We'll be together now. That was directed at Jessica Simpson. That song. Yeah. You're a liar. So does that mean that we can. Just because they're no longer together, we can just fire Nicolas on a rocket into the sun? Yes. Great.

Yes, I'm down with that. I mean, he asked for it. He said. So. Yes. G-Unit released their debut album, beg for mercy. Now G-Unit. G-Unit. G-Unit. That's familiar because it consists of 50 cent. Lloyd Banks and Young Buck and G-Unit were on a lot of 50 cent songs on his first album. Politics this around on my whole. I'm like, we're supposed to. And then here we go. Oh, look at this around know my. Oh, we put it down like we're supposed to. Won't be back soon. I remember G-Unit, I remember Lloyd Banks. I think he was on an episode of like Miami Ink or one of the Kat Von D tattoo shows. Oh. Was he? Yeah, they did a tattoo for him, but I mainly know G-Unit from video games because one of my favorite shooting video games back in the day, and I think I've talked about this before, was 50 cent blood on the sand. 50 cent blood on the sand. Software developers, whoever was responsible for the video game. 50 cent blood on the sand. Can we either get a sequel for next gen consoles or can you remaster it because it was so good? He's looking for a ring or a diamond skull. A diamond encrusted skull. He was playing a gig in the Middle East, and they got they got raided by terrorists and some chick took his skull. And the dialogue from 50 cent was, that bitch took my skull.

And that was what he got paid in for doing. The G-Unit helped him find it. So you could be 50 or Lloyd Banks or one of the other units. Yeah. And you'd run around Gears of War style, like fighting all these terrorists, trying to get the skull back from that bitch. It was great. It had a swear button. So you'd be, like, shooting people behind cover, and then you'd just press the swear button. If you wanted to vent off a little steam, you'd be like, come on, motherfucker, come on motherfucker, come on motherfucker, could. You teabag in that one? No, you could not. Oh, I don't think it had a multiplayer, but there is potential. This is what I'm saying. Regardless of. And look, you can bring all these songs back. 20th anniversary of G-Unit, 50 cent, blood on the sand. Or Die trying. Correct remastering now, like, let's get the whole thing back together. Let's get the whole posse back together and send G-Unit back into the Middle East after that bitch who took his skull. I'm there. I'm there for it, I am. I will play it. I'll even play. If it's multiplayer, I'll play you anyway. I think their album was called What was It? Beg for mercy. Beg for mercy. And that was called poppin them thangs, poppin them thangs. Popping them. Thangs. I don't recall them being that massive here, which is surprising given the success of 50.

Yeah, I think they were more popular over in the States. I had the album, but it was only because the record company just sent it to me. It wasn't terrible. That wasn't terrible. It is. It's a great album. I wish it did do better here because I quite like G-Unit. Wasn't as good as a video game. But I mean, I think, you know, the two go hand in hand. Yes. Well, it could it could boost sales. Yes, exactly. We got another album, one more. Jay-Z The Black Album, his eighth studio album with this very famous song. If it was. Good enough for Spinal Tap and it was good enough for Metallica, it's good enough for Jay-Z. I don't know. What you take me as or understand the intelligence that Jay-Z has from rags to riches, I ain't dumb, I got 99 problems, but a ain't one hit me? £99, but it ain't one if you haven't got. Bad for you, son. I got 99 problems, but ain't one. Hit me. 90. I feel like we. Could get away with saying bitch on the podcast? I don't think we need to censor anything. I mean, we're talking about some pretty terrible things. We're probably going to mark each. And this, and the bitch wasn't the problem anyway, so it's not like he's saying anything mean. About the other 99. That is a great. Song, and I do like the memes that it's brought out over the years.

My favorite one was I've got 99 Bobby pins, but I can't find one. Oh, I was like, I feel that that's my life. Yeah. Where did the Bobby pins go? Is that the best one? You've got 99 Bobby pins and I can't find one. And there's a little picture of a Bobby pin. In the. Carpet, I lulled. I find him in the carpet. Is that where they are? Can you return them to me? What are you doing with them? I tried on one. Where do you put them? Well, one got lodged in my foot. It really hurt. Can you dislodge it and give it back to me? Because I can't find one. That was one of my 99 problems. I had one of your fucking Bobby pins lodged in my foot. I've got 99 problems. And if we go to entertainment, the Wojciechowski brothers, I think they're sisters now. But the Wyczawski is too, because we've got a. Problem with them. Yeah, especially with the Matrix Revolutions, which was number one at the US box office this week. Speak the program. Smith has grown beyond your control. You cannot stop him, but I can. And if you. Fail. I won't. Do you know what happened to neo? He is trapped in a place between this world and the machine world. Bring me the eyes of the Oracle. And I would give you back your savior. Mr. Anderson. Who are you?

Look past the flesh and see your enemy. It's impossible for me. Not impossible. Inevitable. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Keanu Reeves, the agent Smith has gone be out of control, and we need to stop him. Whoa! It was a good jacket in that, didn't he? Yeah, it was. It was a very good jacket. The third matrix film, which everyone was hotly anticipating. Loved the first matrix. The second one. I was like, hmm, that's is, uh, I'm not sure that's going down the path I want to follow. And then by the time we get to the Matrix Revolutions, I was like, ah, I'm enjoying the visual feast of all of this by the jacket, but the story is not doing it for me. Which one had Ada Nicodemou? That was the first one. Oh, matrix. Well, then I didn't watch anything past the first one. The best thing about the first one was that they didn't have a lot of money to do it with. They shot it in Sydney and it was a great story and it was just anyway, they they wanted to do more. And like the Wojciechowski's are very ambitious with their writing. They write some pretty out there stuff. And the one thing I will say about them that I think is wonderful is they don't really compromise on their art.

So they had the story and this is the movie that they wanted to make, and by golly, they made it. Well, it is kind of believable that we're all in these little virtual reality tanks. And I walked away from the first one going, yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, I'm just going to wake up without a belly button or something. And no. No eyebrows. I'm a clone in a little tank. Can you, can you just? You were fact checking. You've got 99 problems and maths is one. So matrices is the plural of matrix. Matrices is the plural of matrix. If you have multiple matrices. My favorite things to do in maths I wasn't very good at it, but it involved. Yeah like numbers in like a box and a thing. And it was fun. It was, it was different for maths. It was a bit off brand for maths and I enjoyed it. I still don't really understand maths unless you're going to be like an engineer or anything. The only thing I really need to know about maths is how to count money. Yes, and then I'd need some money to count, so I guess I don't need it at all. Really? Okay, well, let's go back to the third installment of The Matrix. So what it was, it was the same people though. Keanu and Carrie-Anne Moss, Carrie-Anne Moss, Larry Fishburne. Jada Jade is in there. Jada Jade is in there.

Yeah, yeah, she's all across the news at the moment. She she. Is. Well, she was is she still maybe. I'd say she still is at time of airing. Yes. Yep. So Hugo Weaving steals the show. Australian Hugo Weaving as Agent Smith is just spectacular. He was great. So this time around, neo is trapped between the real world and the matrix world, and he's trying to deal with not only the machines, but the fact that the Agent Smith program has kind of gone rogue. So he's the rest of them are all in this virtual. I don't even care. It doesn't matter anyway. 34% from the critics. They didn't like it. The audience still liked it, the audience loved it. And it made 48.8 million. And it was also number one here in Australia with 3.8 million. As we mentioned, it had this global release. Event cinemas was very big. It was it wasn't one of the first movies. I think a Star Wars did that. Star Wars, Star Wars did it, Lord of the rings did it. I think it was still a new it was. Still a new thing. But it was this event, cinema thing that we were starting to see. And M.C. saw it. M.C. was at the premiere. Paris was at the premiere. It's a big deal. Art Museum Paris were there. That was probably more exciting than the film itself. Yes.

Um, I think studios started liking the idea of doing this simultaneous global release, because if they put the movie out at once all the way around the world and everyone goes and sees it in the first week and it's shit. They still stand to make their money back. Whereas if it if it gets released, say in the States first and it's a pile of hot garbage. And then we go, everyone over there hated it. So I'm not. Watching you see it. Yeah, I think to internet age we probably started seeing people uploading movies on LimeWire and Napster and things like that, so there was probably risk of it being pirated as well. This is where I reckon M.C. probably was in with a shot too, because he's gone to see that movie with Paris and he's like, listen, Paris, these films dog shit. Do you want to get out of here? Maybe go to a bar or something? And she was like, yeah, that's hot. And so away they went. Maybe, maybe that's what happened. You know? Lo and behold, next day they're at the Melbourne Cup having a punt. She had a great hat. I remember the hat. It's an excellent hat. And I think M.C. was wearing it in one of the photos later on in the day. You know how they always do that. Like by the end of the races, you're swapping clothes with, with whomever you're with.

If you're with someone of the opposite sex, you're always like, swap clothes. Like you put the man's jacket on and the guy puts the girls. I think he was a bit of a lightweight. I think they were photographed with Paris carrying his shoes. Okay, it's the hatches, matches and dispatches segment, and we have to start off with a trigger warning, which we also mentioned at the start of the show. But we are going to discuss the suicide of an actor that passed away on the 12th of November. We're talking about Jonathan Brandis, anyone who watched seaQuest DSV, the mini series of Stephen King's IT back in the day, would know who Jonathan Brandis is. He was a child actor who moved into acting in commercials and won lots of television and film roles. He made his acting debut in 1982 as Kevin Buchanan on the soap opera One Life to Live. Just, I just want to take a side note because it is very tragic, his death. But he starred in this fantastic movie with Chuck Norris called sidekicks. You can do it, Barry. Barry was a hero in his heart. I really like you. We always seem to meet this way. It's not going to be so easy this time. But he wanted someone to prove it to you. You want a real shot at me? Well, there's your chance. Karate tournament. And he needed his fantasy partner. I am Chuck Norris to.

Become his real life teammate. Why don't you and I go win this thing, huh? Jonathan Brandis and Chuck Norris. I can't believe. That was you. Sidekicks rated PG. It was great. It was like The Karate Kid with Jonathan Brandis and. Chuck Chuck Norris. That would be fun being in a movie with Chuck. Almost better. Almost better. Yeah, sadly. So he'd been in heaps of films. Bill Denbrough in The Neverending. Story two was one of the movies that really broke him, and you started seeing sort of in the 90s. He was always on the cover of Smash Hits, TV hits. He was on the stickers, he was the poster. Lots of. Folders. Oh, everyone's. He had very piercing blue eyes. He was a. Good looking boy. Great hair, great. Piercing blue eyes, great hair, fantastic voice. I struggle to understand why he didn't get into voice acting later in his career. That probably would have helped him, but he never did. He was also in the TV show seaQuest DSV and he was very popular on that show. I think that's the show that that was his biggest show, I'm pretty sure. So that show got canceled, and I think it was hard for him transitioning from being a child actor to an adult actor because he missed the whole education as far as the casting process goes and all that sort of stuff.

So he wasn't really privy to how to land bigger roles beyond some of the stuff that he'd done. He was so big as this heartthrob. There's this photo of him that I clearly remember, and he's lying. I don't know if he's in his room or where he is, but he's just covered in what looks like thousands upon thousands of envelopes. And it's fan mail, fan mail, fan mail. And he's just lying back in amongst all of this, this fan mail. Because at the height of his career, he was such a heartthrob. He was across all the magazines, all the teens were writing him letters and sending him love letters, and he was just everywhere. And then all of a sudden, yeah. So like. I'd go to the newsagents on the first Wednesday of every month to get my copy of Hot Metal magazine, and all the teen magazines are kind of around there as well. And you would see it would be there Jonathan Brandis or Jonathan Taylor Thomas. Yes. The two Jonathan's, they used to put them up against each other. Yes. Always on those magazines. So he also started to get into. So he's 27 years old in 2003, right. At 2002, when he's 26, he was in a film called Hart's War, which also had Bruce Willis in. It was a war film. And I think he a lot of his scenes ended up getting cut. That's right out of that movie.

So he's really disappointed with him that it ended up. That was a big break. That was finally him being able to cast off the fact that he'd been on DSV and it had been axed and he hadn't had any regular acting work, and he obviously still wanted to work. And he lands a role in Hart's War opposite Bruce Willis. And he's like, all right, here we go. And then the film is released and all of his scenes, practically all of his scenes have been cut from the movie, which he didn't take very well. He also had quite a few mental health issues. I believe he had bipolar disorder. He suffered from bipolar. I think, on reflection, his dad said in an interview that he was pretty sure in hindsight. So maybe not diagnosed, not diagnosed. But I think that's sort of what his family were thinking. On reflection, I think that's that's a hard thing to reflect upon once you're grieving as well. Like you kind of looking for reasons. So maybe not. And he was he was an only child as well. So according to police, a friend of his called a friend of Jonathan Brandis, called 911 from his apartment just before midnight on November 11th to report that he had attempted suicide and paramedics took him to hospital. But he actually died the next day in hospital. So you could imagine that is a very.

Horrific and unpleasant way to go, because he was obviously unsuccessful in his attempt, and there was still hope that he may have survived it. And it's a real shame that he didn't. He didn't leave a note. And I think his friends had said that he had started to drink quite heavily and had made passing comments here and there that he was going to kill himself. And I think there was a lot of people that felt really guilty in hindsight because they didn't take it seriously at the time. Yeah, but his friends did say that he'd been really depressed again after his. He's the lull in his career and what happened with the movie and then. Yeah, like you say, his dad, on reflection, I think it was only a couple of years ago that he said that he felt his son may have been struggling with bipolar disorder and that, you know, looking back now, he did show signs of that. And he really hopes anyone else suffering similar situation reaches out and asks for help, of course. And you know, I don't even know if it's a thing that you have to every, every time you watch the news or something and they talk about suicide, it's always like, and don't forget, you can call lifeline or whatever. If you're struggling and reaching out, you can reach out to them. So what is it? 13 1133 I think is the number. Um, I don't know.

It's such a horrible topic, but I wish that people did speak about it more. And it's it's funny how it's always creatives that really do seem to suffer, and it's always people who you think are high profile and you think they've got everything in the world at their feet, and they do tend to really struggle with those things. And I think heavy is the head that wears the crown in a lot of ways. And and if you've had a taste of something so early in life and then you're struggling to kind of get that back later on in life, it can be really difficult. And I mean, Hollywood and that whole culture is just I mean, why would you? It just seems so toxic to me. Like, sure, that there's when things are going great, it's great. But when you are in the limelight for either the wrong reasons or you are fallen out of the limelight, it just doesn't feel. You've known since you were a child as well. And all of these people building you up and telling you how great you are, and then all of a sudden, nothing. Where do you go? What do you do? And look from. There, as someone who's been in a role that has been pretty high profile on a local level, nothing like this, right? Okay. Like, don't kid yourself. Like, I don't think it was that important.

But being somebody in the community that used to broadcast to thousands of people and then all of a sudden one day having that taken away from you and not having any sort of control over how that happens and wondering what you know, why. And I mean, it's just it's very, very challenging and it takes a massive toll on your mental health. And I think, too, when you put so much of yourself into what you do, whether it's through movies or singing or radio, like ultimately what you're doing is you're giving part of your life away to your audience. You are sharing intimate parts of your life, whether through song, through acting, through just relaying what's happening day to day in a radio show that becomes your identity and you give so much. And for it then to just to just stop it is it is hard. There is there is no support. No one helps you transition from that into something else when that's all that you've known. It's it's such a big difference. And on the other side too, I think the people that are left behind, like there's more than one victim of suicide and it's, it's it's all the people that are left behind. And it's not just the person who takes their own life, it's the other people that they are close to or that they have been close to throughout their lives that are the real victims of it.

For the Jonathan Brandis suicide, that was was one of those things where it was like it was a it was a child actor that was kind of at the same age. So it was very shocking. We thought, I think he was. Yeah, I think he was born the same year as us, actually. I think the same age, same age as us. And I remember I remember it happening and everybody was just in so much shock. And I don't think people knew about it until a week or so later. I don't think it was confirmed for a little while, and it was just it was so shocking and so terrible. Yeah. And as much as I think people will say, you know, reach out, I don't know how you win against something as extreme or as confronting as this. I think you need to talk to people. But I think also you need to make sure as an individual, as someone who either cares for other people or whatever, that you're okay in your own head. And if you're not, then you need to like self. It all starts with self care, like you can't be somebody for anyone else until you are right in your own head, because it's like the. Somebody was talking to me once about an analogy of having a cup full or empty, and if your is empty, then you've got nothing to give anyone else.

So you've got to make sure your cup is kind of full before you can be anything for anyone else. Because if you're not the best version of yourself when you're trying to help other people, a it's going to take a massive toll on you. And b maybe you're not being that useful. Yeah, yeah. And I think too, the other thing is it is such a taboo topic. And one of the things that they do, they do say so I've, I've done training in, in how to speak with someone who is feeling suicidal? And one of the things that they tell you is it is such a taboo topic. And everybody's always so worried that if someone's wanting to take their life, if you ask them about it and you talk about it, you're going to make it worse. But in this training, they actually say it is the complete opposite, because people are so ashamed and they feel so hopeless and they feel that nobody cares. Often being able to to verbalize that conversation is what helps them get help, because that shame is taken away because there's somebody listening and saying, I'm happy to listen to you tell me about it. And like you say, it's important that if you're the one listening, you've got to be in the right frame of mind and you've got to be comfortable having that conversation. But it is it is something that is so, so taboo.

And I wonder if we do start talking about it more and feeling more comfortable having the conversation. They say in this training you can actually say to someone, are you feeling suicidal? Be blunt, be clear and use those words. Be clear so that they feel comfortable having that conversation. Why is that? Is that because talking about it makes it real? Do you think that's what it is? I think having somebody there, listening to it and exploring it, getting it out of your head and vocalizing and thinking it through perhaps, maybe. And and they, they teach you about understanding, you know, if that person is talking about it, understanding sort of where, where they're at and how you can best help depending on the sorts of things they're telling you about. But what they say is that as a society, we shy away from having those conversations. Well, I mean, and this is the thing, like, I've had plenty of bad ideas, you know, and then I've gone and I'm like, hey, I want to run this by you and somebody be like, no, that's a terrible idea. And it's like, I don't carry out that idea. I mean, I'm not trying to make fun of that situation. That's that's how it works.

Like, you kind of you talk about it with other people and then you roll it around a little bit and you figure out that it actually is a bad idea, and then you don't go ahead with it. And I think more people should talk about it. So why not start like, why not have that conversation? We did say it would be a pretty heavy episode, this one, but let's move on to the clue. Yes. On a lighter note, let's move a change of pace, so to speak. A celebrity having a birthday this week also had a birthday this time 20 years ago. Who said? This? Anyone? Anyone wants to go out with me, you can come out with me. I'm not picky. Come on. Listen, I don't know why we got to play this game, you know? Let's just get married. Do you want? To? Yeah, sure. Let's just get married. He's not that picky, ladies. And if you said Ryan Gosling. You would be correct. I would take interviews that you wish you didn't have for $100. Thanks, Ryan. He was 18 years old in that interview. Was he? Yeah. But his career started much earlier than that. Yes. So he's celebrating his birthday on the 12th of November. He is a Canadian actor, rose to fame on the Mickey Mouse Club alongside Britney, Christina, Justin Justice for JC. I didn't know JC Chasez was on Mickey Mouse Club as well. That's where they new.

Every day, where it all started. I reckon Ryan Gosling probably taught them a few dance moves, actually. Well, he became good friends with JT with Justin Timberlake because his mother, Ryan's mother, had to go back to Canada for work reasons. So when they were on the Mickey Mouse Club, their parents had to have their parents with them because they were obviously billeted. He billeted with the. Timbers, mum goes home and Justin's mother became his legal guardian. Oh God. Because his mum had gone home and I think they're still I don't know if they're I don't think they're besties now, but I think they're still quite good friends as a result. But his breakthrough role was as a Jewish neo-Nazi in The Believer in 2001 and then obviously 2004 romantic drama The Notebook, which I've never seen, never seen. And I think I'll keep it that way. But all the women loved him after that, didn't they? He just became this international heartthrob. Yeah, well, marry me, Ryan. He was. He was one of the ones that was thrown into the Hollywood machine very, very young. And so he was throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and finding out what would stick, including the single? Put me in the car in 2007. Just put. Me. Drive so far. Till. In my. That all these years I've been dreaming. Put me in the car. Available now on the internet.

I'm not sure if you can find it on not on Dino music. Not sure it makes sense though now, because when I first saw that he had a single, why would he have a single? But the fact that he was on the Mickey Mouse Club, he must have been a good singer or able to sing. Well, he can hold his own, wasn't I? I mean, I liked him as Neil Armstrong in the film First Man, although I've struggled a little bit. I liked him in The Other Guys as well. With Russell Crowe, that was great. I struggled to like him in a lot of movies that he's in, though I have to say. I think there was a movie this year that you did. I loved him as Ken in Barbie because I'm just Ken. Anywhere else, I'd be ten. Is it my destiny to live and die a? Life of blind agility? I'm just kidding. Where I see love, she sees a friend? What will it take? For her to see the man behind the. Info for me. It was so good. He deserves an Oscar for that. For Ken. He was. He was very, very good. I know it just I think it's a great he's such a great role model for men the world over because, ladies and gentlemen, guys, we are kenaf. I just think that is wonderful. I really I almost want to get that tattooed.

I am kenaf, you know, it gives me hope. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. So happy birthday to Ryan Gosling, who is more than kenaf? Very happy and not picky either, apparently. That's good to know. Yes. Is it? I beg your pardon? Oh, just something to keep in the memory. Yeah. Okay. Yes. What? The wank bank. What are you talking about? Goodness me. I just come across in one day and I'm single. You know. If you ever asked me to watch The Notebook, you can sleep on the couch. That is. That is the end of the show for this week, folks. Thank you very much for tuning in and dealing with all of this together. And, you know, remember, if you do need to talk to someone, just do it. Yeah, for goodness sakes, reach out. There's got to be somebody there in your Rolodex that you can reach out and speak to. You can reach out to us on the socials, although we're probably not very helpful. Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, you can find us there during the week and be part of the frivolity and tell your friends to go and download T -20. It's I mean, how much fun are we having? Yes, lots. Well, not so much this week, but we do have fun from time. To fun next. Week. Absolutely. We'll see you next time. Bye! Thanks for taking the time to rewind.

Join us next time for another week. That was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials, search for T -20 podcast on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.