Ok so it’s an obscure title that we’ve used to put two unrelated occurrences together this week.
The first being the deliberate sinking of the HMS Scylla of the coast of Britain and the second, Usher releasing his album confessions. Where the single ‘Burn’ basically gave him an excuse to rip his shirt off.
In sport France defeated England to win the Six Nations Rugby Tournament.
We also had an album release from Maryland’s Clutch. Joe discusses why ‘Blast Tyrant’ is one of his fave albums of all time. And we have to endure another tacky compilation album as ‘Now That’s What I Call Music 15’ comes out.
Meanwhile Mel decides to spend 8 bucks sending an SMS to J-Kwon via cameo. Find out if he replies.
At the box office Zack Snyder made his motion picture directorial debut with a remake of George A Romero’s ‘Dawn of The Dead’. Whilemover on the small screen ‘Deadwood’ captivated those who could afford Foxtel or HBO.
Plus books we didn’t read and loads more!
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Ok so it’s an obscure title that we’ve used to put two unrelated occurrences together this week.
The first being the deliberate sinking of the HMS Scylla of the coast of Britain and the second, Usher releasing his album confessions. Where the single ‘Burn’ basically gave him an excuse to rip his shirt off.
In sport France defeated England to win the Six Nations Rugby Tournament.
We also had an album release from Maryland’s Clutch. Joe discusses why ‘Blast Tyrant’ is one of his fave albums of all time. And we have to endure another tacky compilation album as ‘Now That’s What I Call Music 15’ comes out.
Meanwhile Mel decides to spend 8 bucks sending an SMS to J-Kwon via cameo. Find out if he replies.
At the box office Zack Snyder made his motion picture directorial debut with a remake of George A Romero’s ‘Dawn of The Dead’. Whilemover on the small screen ‘Deadwood’ captivated those who could afford Foxtel or HBO.
Plus books we didn’t read and loads more!
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Transcript is generated automatically.
The year is 2004. Your polyphonic ringtone habit is sending you broke. George W Bush is sworn in for a second term, and in spite of everything going on, the most controversial thing is a wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl team -20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel.
Wait.
Oh, 21 March 2004.
T -, 20 you know what -20.
The rest is history.
I'm very forgetful. Hello there.
Stop trying to make fetch happen.
Five, we're waiting for.
It's it's harder than I thought it.
Would be Americans, let's roll.
My fellow.
Welcome into the podcast where we rewind to this week in history 20 years ago. It's called t -. 20. If you're joining us for the first time, welcome. We'll try and do the best we can. Your host. Joe and Mel.
Here. Hello, Mel. Hello. Yes. Welcome everybody. Thank you for joining us. We are rewinding to the 21st to the 27th of March. All the way back in two. 1000 and.
Four, a 2 1/2 thousand tonne former warship was sent to the bottom of the sea today to create Britain's first artificial diving.
The first artificial diving reef ever in Britain, why you would ever want to swim in that water? Oh, well, I mean, people swim across the channel and stuff, don't they?
They do, they do. And that's that's a big thing. Diving through shipwrecks and stuff like that. People love that, that that sounds horrible.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I agree. I I I don't understand diving, but lots of people do it and quite enjoy. It depends on the kind of diving I guess. Anyway, then we have this.
Hmm.
No law at. All in Deadwood gold, you can scoop from the streams with your bare hands. People with cash on hand.
People with cash on hand, that's a rare thing. Take me back to Deadwood, I say.
Yeah, no, it's all tape and go. I that was the big premiere, wasn't it this time, 20. Years ago, did you ever.
Watch it. It's on my it's another show that is on my pile of shame, but HBO this is when HBO will really starting to up the ante and putting out some really good quality shows. We had The Sopranos.
Yeah.
Edward makes its debut, this time 20 years. It's all happening in entertainment.
From the creators of half life comes the follow up to the world's number one online action game.
This is a game that Joe Rogan was addicted to. Mm-hmm.
Ohh OK that's that's a good testimonial I. Guess.
Yeah, he had to go cold Turkey. He had to quit it because I did not. But I did play it. And I did enjoy it. Hey, this is a PC thing, you know? And it's like they're the haves and the have nots back in the early 2000s.
Yes.
Did you have this game? Is. Ohh, that's ********. The PC versions you gotta use the arrow keys. Instead of the controller.
You gotta and your mouse. You gotta use lots of things that console gamers just don't have. You also gotta use money on your PC. Gaming. Those rigs were expensive anyway. That's also on the cards this week. That's what else we're talking about.
Uh.
Yes.
But you you've actually switched the controller for a needle and thread. Over the last few weeks. You've you've put your controller down, and you've been sewing.
I have. I have. Then. I yeah. Look, I'm not ashamed to say that I'm pretty handy. With the needle and thread I'm quite good at sewing.
You're you're OK to him.
Yeah, and I this is where I come into a a situation that finds. To me, identifying very much with Taylor Swift fans identifying with them relating to them, we are one in the same we are one in the same.
Really. Oh, you're preparing a costume?
So you know how they got the friendship. Bracelets. Ohh.
They trade, yes.
Yeah. Well, the well, we don't trade these, but the heavy metal equivalent would be the battle Jack. That and for those of you that are uninitiated in the heavy metal world, the battle jacket is basically a denim jacket that is covered in patches. Well, it does.
Uh-huh. A sleeveless denim jacket? Come on, it's it's effectively a denim vest.
It depends on the type of battle you're going into. If it's a bit chilly, you can have one with sleeves. That's more surface areas more expensive.
OK. Ohh OK so this is this is the summer version.
And you can add patches to it and spikes and all sorts of things. It's fine, you can customise it to express your individuality.
Are you going to add spikes?
No, I don't think because they're too expensive. And then you get hassled at security when you go on the. With the gates. But I found myself sitting there, you know, sewing it in the lead up to it. And all of this Taylor Swift stuff has happened that it's been gone now, and it's probably old news to a lot of people, but umm, I just found myself in this moment, sitting there stitching A Motörhead patch onto a jacket, thinking we're no different.
Hmm.
We are no different. Swifties metal heads, no different from each other, and I and I, I said it before about the whole Taylor Swift phenomena. I think it's quite wonderful because it's encouraging young people to get into music and treat it like an event.
Hmm.
Hmm.
And it's a real thing, listening to albums from start to finish and all that stuff, which is things that we've been doing for years. So I won't. I won't hear any of my heavy metal friends hating on the swifties because we are one and.
The same I think you've put just as much effort into your outfit as what the swifties did for Taylor. You have spent so many hours arranging and rearranging the way in which the.
Possibly.
Patches are gonna sit on the jacket.
The placement of the patch is imperative.
I think you've had to. You've had to unpick. A few haven't you?
I had to unpick a couple cause they weren't symmetrical and I have rampant obsessive compulsive issues.
Yes, that's. That's a lot of maybe some bedazzling.
No.
I want compadable now. See that's that's the difference between us and the swifties. We'll do. No, we'll do spikes. They can bedazzle anything they like. That's fine.
If you aren't sort of going down the Swifty route, maybe we need some some rhinestones.
Anyway, enough of my self indulgent rubbish. Let's look at the hatches, matches and dispatches clue for this week. Every week we have this segment, of course, and it's got to do with births, deaths and marriages and we like to play a little clue to hook you through to the end of the show. So a celebrity. That is having a birthday this week that said this.
Yeah.
With all of the humility in the world.
I grovel to them.
Wow, I think I think that person's talking about. Us.
Maybe it's absolutely.
I don't know. Let's hear it one more time.
With all of the humility in the world.
I grovel to them.
OK, I'm gonna give you a really big clue here. It's a pretty broad clue. There is no way I could ever find myself liking this person. And here's Mel with the.
News. Ohh, thank you. Over to the 27th of March 2004 over in England a Royal Navy Leander class frigate is actually sunk on purpose.
The 2 1/2 thousand tonne former warship was sent to the bottom of the sea today to create Britain's first artificial diving reef. Big crowds turned out to watch HMS Siller being sunk off the coast of South East Cornwall.
321.
A planned five years in the making, just 4 minutes in the final execution, H masilla slid beneath the waves almost according to plan, just listing slightly more than anticipated. For her last commander, watching his own ship sink, there were mixed emotions.
I mean fantastic departure for for Darryl Siller, I must admit, tinged with a little bit of sadness to see her go and a fairly dramatic weight of slipped down. Say the ways.
The event had been delayed for more than an hour. Last minute problems with explosives and a jet ski dashing across the exclusion zone. H Marcilla will now become a Mecca for both divers and marine life. This ship is going to be a magnet for the local economy, but 200 divers a day £1,000,000 a year. According to Navy divers, Zilla has settled on the seabed, listing slightly to starboard. The first recreational dives start tomorrow, Andrew Moore, Sky News.
Como.
They didn't muck around, did they? Mm-hmm. It's first time I've started the day after it's been sunk. No time for any of.
Hmm.
The sediments it's.
Well, if it's still settling, what if? It tips over.
It might be a bit the visibility. Well, it's not gonna tip over. It's like listing slightly to the side. Did you hear that, though? They they had a few issues, like and they had to delay it for an hour. And the first one was because quit with the jet ski started.
On you sounds very dangerous.
Started riding into the exclusion zone there and then, and then they were worried that the ship was actually gonna tip. So in spite of all the planning, the with the explosion it it started to lift to the side. And if it had have tipped over, then that whole or the artificial reef still would have worked. But the diving side of things. Would have become extremely hazardous and they probably would have made it a restricted area where people weren't allowed to dive because it wasn't.
Right. That would have been a bit emotional for the captain as well. Watching watching them sink it on purpose, be harsh, making him watch them watch them blow up his bows.
Yeah.
Sending the old girl down to the bottom of this sea. Well, at least they I mean, you know the rules about captains and their ships at. Least he wasn't. On it so.
Yes.
This ship was commissioned back in the 70s and had various roles throughout its career as a ship anti submarine warfare patrol duties and humanitarian missions. It was a very busy boat.
That's right. I'm sorry. It's all on Silas. LinkedIn. Yep.
Very. However, most notable obviously for being sunk this week 20 years ago to create that artificial reef, the first of its kind in Europe, it was a quiet I think it was decommissioned in the 90s and was then acquired by the National Marine Aquarium for 200,000 lbs.
Yes.
Yeah.
That's a bargain. That's a bargain. I mean, you know, these days, I'd, I'd convert that into a house. I think the upkeep would be pretty interesting. Big rent. It's not very tiny. It's big. But there are lots of tiny rooms. Big house, tiny rooms, big loss, aphobic, low ceilings.
Could. Like a tiny house. Yeah, yeah. Tiny rooms. You can rent it out. That'd be a. That'd be a cool. B&B Air B. And B yeah.
You reckon on?
The ship I.
Don't know, maybe. Big, crusty. You know all that semen? I mean semen. I mean, what? Sorry.
It's a practise sinking the vessels for artificial reefs. This practise has been employed across the world, but this was the first time that they, as you heard there, did it over in England. And it provides new habitats for marine life as well as boosting tourism and recreational opportunities like diving.
Yeah. So before they sunk it, it actually they they spent a lot of time preparing it to make sure that it was good for the environment and suitable for divers. And that's why they got really stressed out when it started to sort of lean to one side. They're like, ohh, we've done all this work. So they took all the hazardous materials out of it. There's nothing bad in there. They pretty much gutted the entire. And then they created a lot of extra openings within the ship so that like divers and marine life could go in there and not get stuck. Hmm. Yeah. And then they they put it. So, so where it rests is like this sandy sea bed. It's quite flat. It's about 500 metres from the wreck, actually, of the liberty. James Egan Lane, which has been a dive site for lots and lots of years. So it's this little diving tool. Tourism area. Yeah, you could go double diving if you like. Yes, double diving double. I don't know if it's like double dipping, but but yes. So so within three months there's a whole bunch of sea and enemy on there with friends like them who needs an enemies muscles. Scallops. But any within six months, sea urchins.
Ohh you could do a double dive.
Excellent.
Ohh.
Starfish this the marine life is so exotic off the coast of England like scallops, sea urchins and starfish. Yeah, little potato cakes swimming around in the water.
Was the place to be. Yeah. I think by 2021 they had recorded 250 different species aboard the ship. And it has become a very popular diving. Right, attracting thousands of divers each year who come to explore, but not all fun and games. In 2007, two amateur divers were killed after entering the wreck, and two more experienced divers died inside the engine room on deck three in September 2021.
Hmm.
Well, these are the risks. I mean, diving is a risky thing. I've I've I've ever tried it.
You know, if I'd like. No, I don't think I'd like diving particularly, though. Yeah, well, you've got.
Hmm, I think it's.
Tank because I watched an episode of Baywatch once and someone surfaced too quickly and got the bends, so I've been I've been petrified of of deep sea diving ever since that Baywatch episode.
All right. Yeah, well, that happens. I I, in spite of the fact that it's like that ocean open ocean, I think it's it. I think it would feel claustrophobic.
I'd be worried about and you see all those those horrendous things where people run out of air? No. And then, yeah, what if you get stuck? What if your tank gets stuck in, you know, the ship's steering wheel or? I don't know.
Yeah, it's not.
It's dangerous.
Ideal.
It's not ideal. I don't think it's that. I don't think this one is actually too low. It's like maybe like I don't know how far down it is, but it's like I don't think you'd get the bends if you were diving on this wreck. I've never done the sport of diving, but I have dove on a few wrecks in.
Still a. Risk.
My. We're. I'm kind of being a bit of a bigot here when they when we talk about reefs off the coast only because Australia's got some of. The best reefs in the world I have snorkel.
Snorkelling great.
Does that count because, well, he's safe because he? Still up above. Above the water, there's snorkel. I snorkelled on the Great Barrier Reef in 1980.
Yeah. Yeah.
8.
Yes. Was it exciting? And the bicentenary year on the Great Barrier Reef, it's one of the seven wonders of the world. That's a big thing.
Amazing. Nice.
Yes.
Yes. And in the bicentenary celebration of a nation went off.
Yeah. You you do have to be careful with snorkelling. If you go under a little bit too far, yeah.
Ohh. People with snorkels do that, they go down under the water and then you come up and there's a. Thing where you blow the water back out.
Yeah, like a dolphin or something.
Yeah, like a a whale. I don't how.
You know, you know what I think is interesting, and I think it's a really good measure as to how much of A.
To do that.
Which you are. And when I when I go, when I go to the pool to swim. Laps.
Ohh no, there's not people with.
There'll be people there with snorkels and flippers and yeah, and yeah, and I and I just think that that they should just have a lane reserved for them with just a sign on it that says this lane is reserved for.
Are you sick? Yes. Snorkels at the pool.
Tempted to go and, like, stick my thumb over their. Blowhole, I think.
You should so.
To speak.
So.
Sport.
OK, we.
We're on the subject of swimming and. Diving.
Yes, but this one isn't a water sport. This is rugby rugby union, 27th of March. We had the Six Nations Rugby Championship. How many nations are there now? There's more than.
Yes, rugby union, yes. Yes.
That now isn't there.
In the city, well, it depends on like rugby is a mess at the moment. You can't. They've had Tri nations, they've had Super 12, Super 8, Super Six. They've had the World Cup, which is probably the the one redeeming part of rugby because it like brings everyone into the.
I can't keep up. It's very confusing.
Yeah.
Or 12 that serves.
Fold, but this one was a rugby was still pretty good back here.
We were and we were pretty good early 2000s, weren't we? Yeah.
Yeah, we were. Were we?
Were pretty good, but we didn't make the final for this one. For the Six Nations, I think we were. I'm I don't even know if Australia was in this to be honest with you. I probably should have done more research. However, this was a good game and I remember the game.
1st.
France defeating England 24/21 at * de France Saint Denis or Saint Denis St Denis next door to Saint Trevor.
Saint Denis.
Last.
Play assuming no penalties, says referee Alan Rowland. This. Dimitri Yachvili, scorer of 19, points to France. But he needs to do something very basic here. Just keep France safe for another few seconds. They can even take it now to a breakdown and kick the ball into touch. Hoof the ball away. France and did one.
OK. No, don't touch it.
They're going to run it. What channel, please? Dominique had signed him. Bruce got his own. Now then, England can counter from Jason Robinson. This tries to make a tackle. Robinson passed him, Dominic C pulls down the England pull back England, though this is their last chance, it's not going to work. The Grand Slam goes to France at the end of the Six Nations. Championship England have lost. France take the spoils on the night they take the spoils in the.
France take the spoils. That was the that was the last minute of play, which I thought I'd share with everyone who was. You didn't enjoy that.
You just play the whole. Game then. Went for what? Ohh life. It just went on for. A. There's a lot.
It's a bit much alright. Note to self, maybe we'll do the last 30 seconds of the game next time.
Look, I'm sure at. The time it would have been very exciting.
Well, it's 24 points to 20.
For the.
1.
Is anyone's game anyone?
Well, if England had got a role on if England had a kept play going and there was no stoppage there, there, there was a very real possibility they could have scored a try and won.
I think they thought they were going to win.
They were. They were hanging in there and it just it just didn't happen, which means that France, as as the commentator said, won a Grand Slam and that was the 2nd Grand Slam that they've claimed in three seasons. So go France.
Well done. Well done, Saint Denis.
Sacre blue. Wow, we're breezing through it this week. Let's get to music. What's happening in music, Mel?
Alright, starting with the number one here in Australia, Britney still number one with toxic.
Any excuse to play a bit of Britney, I reckon well and well and Jack Black is is trending at the moment because he's covered baby one more time.
Yeah, still love that song. Yes, that is a really good cover. I enjoyed it.
I know well. Well, I think this should be the. Next one like. You know, and do his whole Jack. Black thing and.
Yes, I'd like to see him in the outfit. The bedazzled outfit as well, I reckon he.
Hmm. Uh.
Could pull it off.
Yeah, that's wow. Speaking of. Yeah, number one in the UK.
Good.
Thing and then it might be.
I guess any excuse to play usher as well, although like usher is just getting played to death at. The moment well, this time 20 years ago, it was.
Dominating.
Ill real wow.
He's also trending now too, because of the Super Bowl. Everybody's.
Ohh but yes, well, he's having a renaissance.
Grey living Confessions, which we'll talk about in a little bit actually, but before we get to that, let's have a listen to the top five over in the US.
You wanna come? I'm feeling the.
Way you carry yourself and I wanna get with you.
What?
Everybody.
2.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
What?
So I mean, there's more usher. It's it's an usher.
Blowout. It always reminds me we were visiting your friend Ray when he lived in the Shire back in the day and we were down.
On the share, yes, yes. Don't, don't. For anyone who's just in case we do have any international.
By the beach.
Listeners. Yes, Ray is not a Hobbit. The Shire is is a is a suburb. Cronulla Sutherland Shire, AKA the Shire, yes.
No.
And we went for a walk down near the beach and we were walking back up. And I always remember there was someone and they're walking with a ghetto blaster on their shoulder cranking usher. Yeah. And I remember you. You gave them some lip you gave you gave them you did. You gave.
Yes. Is that right? Did I what? Did I? I must have been drunk. Be careful giving people lipping the Shire, yes.
You should. Yeah, I know.
Was he Australian? Cause you know in the Shire. I'm not. Please don't take that the wrong way. It's it's it's a little bit of a hotbed for racial tension, the Shire or it has been. And it was in the early 2000s as well, yes.
You should have.
Sounded like the wrong way. Yes, I know, I know you well, you reacted and thankfully they didn't react back. But he was a boom box and they were cranking. Yeah, and. Just takes me back to the Shire.
I'd like to formally apologise to that person with the boom box in the. Shire that.
Well, they were on to something.
Though you know what it's they were living their best life and I probably wasn't at that stage in my.
Hmm.
Life. Yeah. And, you know, yeah. And I was a hater and I should not have been a hater. So I would like to formally apologise for being a hater. You enjoy your year to your heart's content man with winbox.
Hmm. And on that trip I also bought Britney's greatest hits on Double CD as well. A good trip.
Did you? Ohh. That's right. I had to listen to that in the bloody car. Well, that was punishment. Yeah. Hmm.
It was a good trip. I think we drove up north. Yeah. And you had to listen to it the whole way. Good album. Very good album. Back to the top five though. So yeah, obviously #1 Chingy one call away #2 Jay Jake 1. Tipsy #3 Hotel, which was R Kelly. And what's the other guy?
Baby.
I don't know some other sleazy dude.
It sounded sort of. It sounded like a girl's name. Can't remember what it was now anyway. And slow jams is a little neater. Hey, you know what I did the other.
You did.
Day.
What? What? Ohh.
I invested $8. Well, it's $8 Australian I thought was $8, eight dollars. Well, I actually invested $16.00 cause I. Press the button twice but.
Did you use to take -20? Yeah.
No, but I changed my name. Because.
It's coming out of your pipe.
I wanted to be mysterious. I messaged jaquon.
Yes. Hang on, you used an alias? Yes. What name did you call yourself?
Ohh well I just used Mel. I didn't use my foot like it had my full.
Oh, OK.
Name when I booked something else.
Well, yeah, don't give jakwan your full name.
No, I didn't. I didn't. It's just Mel.
And did you do it on your credit card?
No, I used Apple Pay.
Ohh, good. Otherwise you've given Jake on your first name and your credit card details.
And no. Ohh, that explains a few transactions anyway. So I I jumped on cameo. I had to update the app because I haven't bought anything since I bought that message.
Are they all at the club? Was he getting tipsy?
From the bird lady. So so hang.
On it was $8.
Well, it was it was 799 Australian. I thought it was 799 US, so I was prepared to pay about $16.00. So it doesn't matter. I accidentally sent the message twice. Well, I paid twice, but it's only appeared in his inbox once. So would you like to know?
So.
Oh.
Hang on, how long ago did you do this?
I did it a few days ago. I did it a few days ago because I thought, wouldn't it be great because I knew we, you know, we were recording and I thought wouldn't.
Right.
It be great if I could circle. And share a message with with everybody from jaquon because he's still in the top five.
I love that.
Yes, let's circle back. Hmm. Right.
And so.
And so it was really stressful. Can I just explain a bit? It was really stressful. So for the message, you only have 200 and.
So.
50. Characters, not 250 words, 250 characters, so that's not a lot of.
Oh really?
Words.
Now.
And I'm thinking, well, what do I tell him? So I wanted to tell him about when I was doing workout. And the song came on and I found out for the first time it was everybody in this ***** getting. Tipsy. Not everybody in this club getting tipsy.
Really. So you used it to lodge a complaint?
Well, no, I just wanted to. I just wanted to share with him my surprise.
With world economy with 250.
I know well, I first I wrote an essay and then it said too long.
Characters. Well, I'm like, but did you start? With dear jaquon. Or did you just have to cut to the chase?
No, I I. Well, no. I started with high jacon not dear. I don't think I.
Ohh. See, that's even high like.
Well, I think that's polite and I started with.
And you don't need to put his name in there because he knows who he is. You've just paid $8 like. I sincerely hope that that carriage service is able to deliver the right message to the right person for $8.
Might think he got the wrong message. Well, I started with. Hi jaquan. How are you? But because I had too many words.
OK. Well, you're off to a bad start. Why did you ask him how he was?
What? Because of that I?
Thought that would increase the likelihood of him replying. So they so when you go in there.
What if he only has 200?
And 50 words to.
Reply no, but when you go in there it says 8 dollars, $8 to 799 AU to message them, but you are not guaranteed a response. Ohh so I was trying to elicit a response by asking how are you? But then I had too many words.
Sorry characters, yeah.
Ah, ah.
So I had to take. That out. Do you wanna know? What I wrote OK.
Yes. Ohh well maybe.
Hi Jakwan comma can't believe it's 20 years since tipsy was smashing the charts and the clubs are used in ampersand to save 2 characters there. I thought that was.
Ah.
Smart. I was listening to Spotify, old school workout mix and was shocked to learn the lyric is. Open bracket ***** close bracket not open Bracket Club close bracket. Yes, I.
You wasted time on brackets.
Yeah, but I've smelt.
And you said smashing the charts. You should have just said on the charts.
Well, I wanted to show that I knew.
You're being too complimentary. You you don't have the characters.
And. Well, we want him to. Reply. So anyway. And then I said, guess I only ever heard the radio edit and had like the shrugging emoji lady, but she took up. She took up a few characters, so I got rid of.
Can you send emojis? Are you serious?
And I ended with. Hope you're well. So there's two, like, so, you know, maybe he will say I am. Well, thanks for asking. Maybe this is going to encourage him to respond. He hasn't responded yet and it says on there that he's like one of their power users who usually turns things around in 24 hours with a little lightning bolt. So if you book him for a $1500 message, he usually does your message within 24 hours. So. Well, I've paid him well in US. That would what I paid him 16 Australian.
Hmm.
That's cause he paid him $1500. Not 8 bucks. Right. OK.
Anyway, so he he he normally replies with a lightning bolt fast, but he hasn't responded yet. But now. But look what's popped.
It's been 2 days, 3 days.
Up here it's like. Feeling generous? Send a sticker. So now I can send him a sticker for more money.
Ohh so you have to pay to. Send him a.
Sticker. Well, it says feeling generous. I'm assuming the sticker costs money.
What kind of stickers can can you send him the bird?
I don't wanna start a fight with Jaquon because he's got some really good reviews from 2 anonymous.
Right.
People Jay Quan, thanks for the awesome birthday greeting for my wife. It was perfect and such a great surprise. She loved it. Appreciate the quick response. Thank you.
That. So hang on. That's an example of another message.
That's someone who got a video message from Jack Colon and they're saying thank you. They were saying yes and then they they paid all of that money and they still felt the need to.
Ohh right, that's a video message. So they paid like 1000 bucks.
Say. Thank you so.
If I'm paying all that money, I'm not doing a testimonial. I I OK, I think we should put another $8 in the team -20 account. Yes. And I think you should be.
Anyway. Message him again or someone else.
Jaquan. No. No high. No. Not even. Not even. Don't even acknowledge his name.
Message chacon.
With regards to my last message.
As per my last per my last e-mail.
Yeah. How are you? Fullstop. Questionmark even.
I thought you were a lightning bolts. What's going on?
Yeah, well that. Just confirms everything that I really thought of jakwan.
Now, now don't hate just yet. He could be really busy. Maybe he's performing somewhere, like maybe he's away doing a concert or something. Yes, that's right.
Everybody in the club's really busy.
Everybody in the club's really busy.
So anyway, that's that's Jake one. That's the status. I will continue to monitor the inbox, the Cameo Inbox for us and yeah, I'll let you. Know once, he responds.
Cool is usher on cameo.
I shouldn't be on cameo.
You reckon?
People that are like still doing things.
Are not generally on cameo. They don't need to turn a buck. They're just like if I can go on cameo and make like $4000 in about 10 minutes because I can just rattle off a bunch of videos.
Generally not. There's a lot of wrestlers on cameo. Umm, lots of wrestlers, lots of influencers who I don't.
Are they? Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. It's.
And then lots of old stuff. So Taylor Jane's on there. I was gonna send her a birthday message, remember? Was her birthday to say. Yeah, but then I figured I could just send that on Instagram because I follow her.
You're going to pay $8 to wish her a happy birthday. Why? Yeah, like don't.
On. Instagram. I've gotta use this $8 wisely.
Please, please don't take it upon yourself to feel like you have to spread. Go. Will, via our hard earned money to celebrities that may or may not need to be validated via cameo.
OK. Well, I just feel like this is the challenge now who is going to respond? Who responds to the? $8 message.
Hmm. Hmm. Alright, well well.
Maybe we could get some. Suggestions. OK, on who did cameo?
Alright, I tell you what. If people wanna send us 8.
Yes.
Bucks. We will do it on their behalf and then we'll report back.
Yes, good idea. Think of a celebrity from the early 2000s that you'd like a like us to message. Give us $8 and do it.
Umm, I'll put a go fund.
Me up getting good at the 250 character limit with ampersands. I'll ditch. I'll ditch the brackets.
I don't. I think I think I'd get kicked off. Go fund me for doing that. Help melon Joe send messages to has beans on cameo.
And the quite fonts. People like Tammy. Maybe you can get an endorsement through cameo and they'll let us message people for free.
I don't. I think we're gonna get banned from cameo if we keep talking about them. Let's go to album releases. Come on.
And so I think, OK, sure, alright. So usher, Speaking of usher, he releases his fourth studio A.
Hmm.
Yeah. So I was trying to segue to that about 5 minutes back in the conversation by asking if Asher was on cameo, but you didn't really pick up what I was putting down.
Confession. Oh, is that why you asked? Ohh. OK and no, I was happy to continue talking about can. Yeah, it's it's good. It's a good time.
I know you were.
Too many days, so many hours. I'm still burning. If you want to let it go.
Burn. Sick burn.
That was the other really big single besides, yeah.
Was that like a? You know how he had the the chick that was all up on him screaming? Yeah.
Yeah.
And then he took her home from the club. He he's burned. The aftermath. Is that what happened when he went to pee afterwards?
To me. I don't think so. No, I don't think so. This is his fourth studio album was recorded.
Are you sure? I think it might have been. Little John is not like a A a nice guy to be hanging around like he's.
It's recorded in two. 1003.
He's got pretty low morals.
Produced by Long term collaborator Jermaine, who's been a spell check to Jermaine Duper Super Duper Jermaine Dupre dupay.
Dupree, Dupree, Dupree, is it dupray or Dupree? I thought it was Jermaine Dupree.
To.
Dupree. Dupree. I think it was Dupree. I don't know what happened to me then. Sorry. It covers the gamut. Ballads up tempo, dance pop, hip hop and crunk care of, obviously. Yeah, little John. He's crunk. Yeah.
Yes. Yeah. Crunk. Yeah.
Sold 1.1 million copies in its first week. And to boost sales, so we we're seeing. A lot of bootlegging. Around this time and things coming out earlier before the release.
Yes.
So to boost sales amid threats of bootlegging, they did a special edition issue so nobody knew about. It was like surprise Special Edition, which featured that single My Boo. The duet with Alicia Keys. So that wasn't on the original. It was on a special edition version.
Hmm.
And you are my pain.
Is that the one that they did at the Super Bowl together?
I felt he was too handsy in that.
My Boo. Well, she was his Boo, wasn't she?
Well, I know, but it just felt a bit handsy. Think 20 years on and, you know, I think, well, is she married? And I think he got married just after the.
To be.
Super Bowl. They're in relationships. I think it just it it just. It just felt a bit handsy.
Yes. And Usher got a bit handsy. Yeah, kind of nuzzled. He canoodle turf, didn't he? I would call it canoodling.
Yeah, I. I didn't like it and she sort of smiled, but I felt like there was a. Little.
She wasn't comfortable.
Bit of pain behind that smile like oh you were.
Thing. Not it was Ollie, was it? It was ick. Yeah.
Oops, it just felt a bit ache. It wasn't the ache, it was. It's like, no, you don't need to do that. It's not, no, not appropriate.
Right. Well, she was perfectly fine with doing it back in 2004.
Anyway, it solves. Yeah. And look, I'm sure she was fine with it on the day. I. I'm just speaking from my perspective and I would have just gone no usher. Get off.
It's just your interpretation of it. Wasn't a good look. Should have stayed at the piano and well, he got off. I'm pretty cool.
Confession sold over 8 million copies in 2004. It becomes the best selling album of the 2000s, so 2000 to 2010. Beaten by no strings attached from *NSYNC. Yes, the second best selling.
Hmm.
So second best the 2nd.
Album it has been certified 14 times, platinum sold over as of 2006, sold over 10.3 million copies.
Wow.
Yes, and 15,000,000 worldwide. So 10.3 in the US, 15,000,000 worldwide best selling R&B album of the 21st century by a male artist that is very specific, yeah.
Hmm.
That's a lot of confessions, yeah. Is that right?
This.
Well, Mike is Michael Jackson R&B. Would he be RB? No pop.
Well, when you say. But when you think when you think 21st century R&B, that makes sense. There's not a lot of other 21st century really big R&B singers that have brought out so many albums over a long period of time. Yeah. Who else? Who else would you say?
Alright.
Hmm.
Sort of like usher. Well, and R Kelly, but he's in gaol for ******* on someone and doing other terrible things. Yeah.
When I talk. About our Kelly, he's just he's off the records.
Please allow me to adjust my pants so that I may dance the good time dance and put the onlookers in innocent bystanders. France.
Yeah, that ended abruptly, didn't it, please? Yeah, sorry about that. Please allow me to adjust my pants, will it?
It would have faded it.
Talk about one of my favourite albums of all time that was released this time 20 years ago from the band Clutch, the album Blast Tyrant, which I think is possibly one of their best and they got a lot of good ones. Clutcher band from Maryland. They released this album on the 23rd of March. That song there the mob goes wild.
Hmm.
Was called feature. Did a lot of bam margera's friends. It was, I think, directed by Bam Margera, and it had all of his Co stars. Ryan Dunn, the late Ryan Dunn, was in there.
Is is that where you first heard of clutch cause he was he cause he hung out with them a bit. An ace of cakes was friends with clutch as well. Remember they made a cake. They made a speaker cake.
No, no. I look. Yes, cause he was from Maryland and they made it. Yes, they did. They did. I had known about clutch for years, long before that. Long before that. Yeah. Like, I think they had an album called Transnational Speedway League, which was like their first album, which we were listening to.
Before that. Ohh, early adopter I was. I was a. Fan before fan.
In the sort of mid to late 90s. So we we'd known about clutch for quite some time.
Oh wow.
But they really had found their sound by by now, and it's kind of a they're one of those bands, I think that transcends a lot of genres. They're big amongst metal fans. They definitely play Blues, almost country. They've got that sort of bluesy country kind of feel to them. And none, I mean, you can really hear it.
Yeah, yeah.
On this album, especially with this song, the regulator.
Wow.
See that Lantern?
And and one of the things that I love about clutch is that they do like to tell a bit of a story with their songs. They're always very quirky.
Hmm.
What was the one with the in the back of? A jacked up forward.
Oh, Cypress Grove.
Hmm.
With the.
Yes.
Like country rock, isn't it? Yeah.
Yes, there are women in Cypress Grove, and if they catch you, you don't go home. Lots of lots of fantastic songs on that album and and every song is kind of different. And that's what I.
Yes.
Yes.
Love about him? And they just, they just tell great stories. I mean that even if you want to get into clutch, that blast tyrant is a great entry.
That's my favourite and I had a lot of songs from that album on my running playlist. They're actually really good songs to run to as well.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. Which is. And that's interesting as well because the guys in the band don't look like they've been for a run for quite some time, but they are that, that blast tyrant, excellent entry album, other albums that are really good. Sygic warfare, earth rock. Ah, ah, Oh my God. There's just so many there. And they're all the book of bad decisions from Beale Street to oblivion. Let me tell you, if you have not heard, if there's one band that I could recommend to people who don't listen to heavy metal or aren't into extreme music. That wanna experience something good and just like these guys are master Craftsman, then I would suggest listen to clutch. And while we're on the subject of making recommendations, maybe, well, maybe not.
No, I don't think you'll recommend this one, but I do love a compilation. We had the release of now that's what I call music #15. the US version released this week 20 years ago.
For all those heathens that are too shallow to get into buying full length albums from one particular artist, it's now that's what I call music 15, featuring 20 top tier songs from top tier. Artists that really don't want you to listen to the rest of this, that they've pumped out, featuring Mother Goose's favourite plagiarist Chingy. And if you're an edgelord that enjoys people saying give their music, you'll love this song from Amazon.
Come on.
What I've said.
Don't worry about me overselling all of this. How about over singing it with Jessica Simpson? And if you thought pop music was same same, you should listen to this pop punk song from Blink 182. And holy ****, this one didn't age well. Gigolo, Nick Cannon, featuring R Kelly. Now that's what I call music 15 bottom feeders that like to explore the discount section of their local record store. Over to the box office and we have a fantastic movie that has hit number one in the US this time 20 years ago. And it's a remake too, and I'm normally really aggressive about remakes. I don't. I don't normally buy into remakes. I I think that they're a waste of time and, well, not so much early 2000s when they did a remake because it was still a relative. Lovely new or wasn't a new concept, but it was a concept that wasn't explored often. Whereas these days it seems like they're remaking everything they're doing the Mean Girls, they've done the crow. I mean, what they've they're remaking everything, the superhero movies, they just go round and round and round and round. All of these things. Nothing original seems to be happening, so not I'm normally quite offended. However, umm this particular remake was fantastic. It was so much fun.
Hmm.
I'll take your questions. Is it a virus?
We don't know.
How does it spread? Is it airborne?
Well, that is a possibility. We don't know.
Is this a?
National Health hazard or a military concern?
Are these people alive or dead?
We don't know.
What are they?
I don't know why are they coming here.
Memory may be instinct. Maybe they're coming for us. There's some things worse than death. And one of them is sitting here waiting to die.
I don't want.
To die here.
When there is no more woman, hell bent of laughter.
When there is no more room in hell, the dead will walk the earth. It's a remake of George A Romero's 1978 film, dawn of the Dead. Directed in his directorial debut by one Zack Snyder, who of course we all know from release, The Snyder cut, who did the Justice League film. He directed Watchmen, which is one of my favourite movies. I love Watchmen and he's done a couple of other stinkers recently with Rebel Moon and army of the Dead. Zach. Snyder just burst onto the scene with this film. He did such a good job with it, he kind of deconstructed the genre and then he put it all back together in this movie and it was awesome. It was so much. Fun.
And I think this is when zombies became cool again, because after this you did start to see a lot of zombie movies and TV shows starting to come out. And it came like the.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, the horror choice is.
Yeah, and but, but I think the the thing that set this one apart was the style was Zach Snyder's style. And so he had been for almost a decade prior to this doing commercials for really big companies. He was he was a very sought after commercial producer. So he was very into that rapid fire. You know, run and gun shooting but but also like a lot of, like, really interesting editing techniques as well. So he he talks about when he he went to make this and how he didn't really feel a lot of pressure because he'd had so much experience with commercials and as a director all the tools that he needed were right there in front of him and he and so he made an. Awesome. Movie. And he'd go on to make 300 as well, which is another fantastic film, really great film. So this one set in Milwaukee follows a group of survivors who take refuge in a shopping mall like the original dawn of the dead. Except the zombies run fast in this one, yes.
Yeah, yeah. That's right. Yes, yes. And they filmed it in Canada in 2003 in what we call a a dead mall, a defunct shopping mall that was gonna be demolished in. Yeah, in the coming year.
Yeah.
I remember I don't remember watching it, but I remember because we were going steady at this point and I do remember you hiring it from Blockbuster and asking me if I wanted to watch it with you. No thanks. I don't like horror movies, but then I was like ohh. Maybe I should try and impress you. And I should watch it. And I started watching it and it got a little bit too stressful.
Yes.
So.
Yeah.
But I do. Yeah, I do remember. And then I think you bought it, didn't you? Yeah.
I I yeah, I did. I'm inspired. I'm gonna watch it again tonight after we've recorded this.
Great.
Because I just the thing that I, I I remember about it is Ty Burrell was in it from Modern Family. The dad from Modern Family and he was a real bad guy in it. And so when Modern Family came out, I was like it's the villain from Zack Snyders Dawn of the Dead. I can't take him seriously. But it was a great film. 76% from the critics on Rotten Tomatoes.
It it.
Ohh yes.
77% of the audience, if you, you know, I was talking about entry things for clutch. If you want entry into the zombie genre, forget The Walking Dead and all that sort of stuff. You gotta see the Romero movies like you have to see the classics. You have to see night of living dead and. You have to see the original dawn of the dead. Snyder pays. Homage to the genre so perfectly in this it was so much fun thing. Rhymes was in there. Sarah. Polly, I think is in it as well. It's just so much fun. It was such an enjoyable. It had the right mixture of cause, zombie films I don't think are horror or they're horror like is in it's horrific what's happening. It's not the big paranormal jump, scary kind of stuff because it's like, well, we know that, you know, there's stuff out there.
Hmm.
But it's more about the group of people that are up against the horror and how they react and the dynamic between the people and that's something that Romero captured really well in the original night of the living dead. He got like a whole bunch of strangers and put him in a house together. And they had to survive the night of this zombie Holocaust. And that's that's kind of what I think.
More suspense, yeah. Yeah.
Next nighter, emulated when he made this film, but he put his own spin on it in his own style, and it's just it's a delight. I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Isn't 2004 when Shaun of the Dead was also released? I think it was the same because I remember you interviewing them when we did breakfast, so that would be 2000.
Oh.
The guys from Shaun of the dead? Yeah. Simon Pegg and Nick Frost. Actually, it was Edgar Wright and Simon Pegg that I interviewed.
And four. So that Kate would have come out. So that would have come out the same year.
Yeah, I think so. But but obviously much later and.
That's interesting. Yeah.
Well, it was a zombie renaissance, wasn't and.
It well and that's really what kicked it off. And then yes, you had Walking Dead and there was lots and lots of zombie zombie movies and shows.
In the years to follow, indeed, now we kind of weren't wise to it. In Australia, though, I mean, we were all just zombies flocking to the latest Ashton Kutcher movie, watching the butterfly. Effect, which didn't really do much.
Ohh that one yes.
But yeah, but the big, big news in TV with this show making its debut.
No law at all in Deadwood gold. He could scoop from the streams or the bare hands. People with cash on hand.
Within a year, Deadwood and these hills will be annexed and we will be restored to the bosom of the nation.
His bosom mean ***?
Same thing. Throughout Denton, comely ******, decently priced liquor, and the Squarest games of chance in the hills remain unabatedly available seven days a week.
Come on on for a long time.
It was a great show and it is on my pile of shame now. I did tell a bit of a lie at the start of the podcast saying I hadn't seen it. I have watched the 1st 2:00. Or three episodes well. Have you? Yeah. And like, I'm pretty time poor. So I just I. Because you know how you, you, you don't have many hours in the day. And it's like I'm not making excuses. I just. And it's one of. Those ones that I.
Did it grab you at the start?
Would like. To this is the thing with Deadwood like it is.
Is that one of those ones where and goes? Ohh no. You gotta get 6 episodes and then you can't stop watching because I.
It's rip.
I'm I don't have the patience for that.
It's very slow. The pacing is a lot slower than probably what we're used to today with TV shows. So I feel like if I went back and tried to, I think it'd be hard work because our attention spans are all.
Yeah, yeah. Infinitely shorter. It sounds a bit yellow. Stoney, is it a similar kind of?
Well, it's a western and it is. It is a very well done, it's it's more graphic than your usual western because like HBO. Were pretty edgy like they were doing this cutting edge. You remember? These are the guys that have done The Sopranos. They're trying to find I. Think Oz was an HBO thing? Yeah.
Do they do walls? Yeah. The one with Elliott's Wang. That was edgy.
Yeah. So they're, they're. Not afraid to show penises.
No. And they talked about a bosom and a tish, right?
Yes, exactly. They're, they're getting out there. So 1870s Deadwood is set in Deadwood, SD. This is the town, city of Deadwood. Before they were annexed by the Dakota Territory and it charts the growth for of the the area from a small camp like a mining camp or a gold mining camp to a massive town. It was produced by the same guy. That did NYPD Blue David Milch. And it was just at the time it only went for three years and I think they made a spin off movie after it as well because it got axed and everyone was just screaming for more Deadwood, you know? And so the thing that it, it's really revered for is the writing and the dialogue. It's very dialogue heavy. And as a consequence it it does move quite so. It's one of those ones that I think I need to go back.
Hmm.
Yes. Hmm.
To it's only three seasons.
Yes.
So it's it's it's a doable thing. You know what we need?
Hey bro.
Another pandemic. We really do. I don't want anyone to get sick or or hurt or anything but.
No, just you just have to stay home for a bit, yes.
I just, even if it was like some kind of government mandated lockdown where it's like, OK, everyone, we all recognise that you've been working very hard, you've weathered, you've weathered the cost of living crisis and all. We want you to do for the next.
Just stay home so you can catch. Up on. Your shows. And. Got a pile of shame. Yes. With the pile of shame. Lockdown. Yes. Catch up on the TV.
Month is just stay home.
OK.
Go for a walk outside for one hour a day and then spend the rest of the time binge watching the shows that you've missed.
Catch up on your TV. I think that's reasonable. I think we all deserve that. That's a good idea. Maybe you should run. Yeah, maybe your policy.
If I if I if I was ever gonna run for government. Yeah, I that would be that would be my number one big ticket policy item.
Yes, I think people would vote for that.
Do you reckon?
I'd vote for sitting on my **** and doing nothing.
Everyone can catch up on their shows that.
Absolutely. But what will we eat? Don't worry about it.
Would be wonderful. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. You got your choice.
You eat the entertainment. That's what you like.
Right.
Speaking of piles of shame, every video gamer has a pile of shame. My video game pile of shame is colossal.
I don't have a pile of shame cause I've got Mario Kart on Nintendo 64 and that's all I've ever wanted, so there's no shame, no shame whatsoever. I am.
Well.
You're smart. You're Mario smart because because video games and as you get older, they do take up so much time and you know, a lot of people, I've, I've I've mentioned this before and offended quite a few people. Now I am a gamer. I play lots of games, but I also recognise that video games are a massive waste.
Hmm.
Of time. There is so much other. You could be doing while you're playing video games like catching up on Deadwood, but you could be learning something. You teach yourself a song on the guitar. You could paint a picture, you could cook something, you learn another language exactly and and it's not to say that there isn't a time and place for it, it's just that video games.
Like watching Deadwood. And learning in another language.
Hmm.
8 hours. They eat so many hours and I think somebody would counter argue that the endorphin hit that you get from playing video games is extremely rewarding, and I don't disagree with that. I still play, at least for. Or maybe 5 hours of video games a week if I'm lucky. Most weeks I'll probably get 1 1/2 to 2 and then I want more and then I get angry because I can't and then I'm not a very nice.
Hmm.
Person to be. And thank goodness I did not have a PC back in the day because this is the game that Joe Rogan was addicted to.
From the creators of half life comes the follow up to the world's number one online action game.
Thanks.
Counter strike condition 0.
That goes on for quite some time and it's quite annoying to anyone who's probably not familiar with counter strike. And for those that are familiar with counter strike, you're welcome for the nostalgia.
Hit. There you go. First person shooter, hmm. For Windows so that that would have been on Windows XP, where Windows XP at this stage. So it's the follow up to counter strike.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so. System requirements Windows XP.
And I think I think the main difference was they had up updated character models and maps and textures.
Yeah, that they had a new map pack.
All the math is just math.
And it's it's like the multiplayer shooter. So this is I think, the beginning.
So did you use the keyboard though? Did you use arrows and space bars, or can you plug in a?
Well, I think you use. You use mouse and keyboard. You might have been able to plug in a hand controller. But see, this is a thing, though. This is a thing with PC gamers, right? Cause I play Call of Duty like relentlessly. I I love Call of Duty and I'm pretty good at it. I wouldn't say very good, but I can hold my own in Call of Duty. I can win.
That sounds hard. Do people play that on the PC?
A free for all match.
What would be the keyboard combination for a tea bag?
Probably the letter T control T.
And a downward arrow.
Control TB, I don't know. But the PC's are a lot more responsive, so I'm now so they can move. You can aim a lot faster with the mouse than you can with the controller.
Ohh so they beat you. Uh-huh. It just sounds more clunky with the keyboard.
It well it does, but it they're actually much better. Yeah. Yeah. And when you get into a lobby full of cause, you can see what device people are on when you get into a lobby.
Fed up?
Yeah.
Ohh so you can just go, no? Thanks. I'm out too many people.
When you can get into a lobby with PC game as you like. Alright, we'll see how this goes. And it usually doesn't end well. I have done OK though, because I've got had better ping than them. Ping's also very important. Well, that's that's the Internet connection. Your ping. It's like how fast your your signal is pinging back and forth from the server, which means that you your it affects your reaction time.
What's a ping? Rise. Wouldn't a PC have a better ping?
If you know what I mean. Not necessarily. Depends on the Internet connection depends on their.
In the console.
And all of these things are important in the world of gaming, and I've probably actually worded it wrong. So a lot of my geek friends that actually do game would be like the the what the this idiot loses as much as he does. But I don't. I tell you, I'm finishing top 3IN free for all on Call of Duty. Probably about 80% of the time. Anyway, we're.
Hmm.
Back to counter strike, what are you? Who are you shooting? So it's a first person shooter. What are you shooting? Is it? Yeah, but is it a war thing or is it?
Talking about.
Other people.
A. Like what? What is it?
Well, it's like a it's. Yeah, it's a war thing. It's like a tour of duty all over the world. It's settle over the world. You're an army dude, and you're going doing arm.
Where where's it says? What are you doing? Right. OK. Army Thing Army shooting are you collecting things? Do you collect things? Is there like, a you don't can find like a first aid thing and get a bit of life back? Is it one of?
Yeah, and and really. Yeah, I think so. I think you could probably do that. I don't know. I I didn't play it cause I didn't have a PC, but I feel like I have to pay tribute to counter strike cause if there was no counter strike, there would probably be no call of.
Those ones, that's good.
Sweetie.
Ohh.
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's kind of the template for that. So, but you could do things like, you know, defea