The horrors of Abu Graib exposed

Buckle up, buttercup: this week 20 years ago was a wild ride - equal parts horrifying, hilarious and of course nostalgic.

The heavy:

• The Abu Ghraib prison scandal explodes, sending shockwaves around the world. We'll unpack the details and the fallout, but be warned, it's not a pretty picture.
• Dick Cheney and George W. Bush take a turn in the hot seat, testifying before the 9/11 Commission. Did they reveal anything juicy?

The hilarity:

• Remember Shrek the sheep? The runaway merino who became a national treasure in New Zealand after six years on the run? We'll relive his epic shearing complete with celebrity guests.

The headliners:

• Beyoncé's "Naughty Girl" is setting the charts on fire with its sassy vibes and dance moves inspired by Fred Astaire (yes, really!).
• D12 drops their album "D12 World," and we'll dive into the music and the group's complicated history.
• Coachella becomes a cultural phenomenon with Radiohead and The Cure headlining. 

Bonus Round:

• We'll mourn the end of an era: the Sunday night movie tradition bites the dust on Network Ten.

So, grab your flip phones (good luck finding a charger!), dust off your old iPods and join us for a trip down memory lane.

Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.

Chapters

• 0:00 intro
• 0:26 show opener
• 10:53 news
• 42:03 music
• 1:04:29 movies and tv
• 1:21:05 hatches, matches and dispatches
• 1:28:36 show closer

Transcript

Transcript is generated automatically.

The year is 2004. Your polyphonic ringtone habit is sending you broke. George W Bush is sworn in for a second term, and in spite of everything going on, the most controversial thing is a wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl. T -, 20 rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. 

Week of 25 April 2004. 

T -, 20 you know what? I'm very forgetful. 

The rest is history. 

Hello. 

Look, stop trying to make fetch happen. Waiting for. 

Goodbye. This it's harder than I. 

Thought it was my fellow Americans. 

Let's. Roll. 

Fellow Americans, fellow Australians, fellow, anyone who chooses to listen to the little podcast that rewinds to this week in history 20 years ago that we call t -, 20 with your host Joe Meho. Mel, Hello news. 

Telling New Zealanders there's been a. Few New Zealanders listeners. 

Has there really? 

Yes. And I feel like they'll be. Interested in tonight's show, actually. 

I also thought that we had like lots of listeners in Italy, but then I realised that our good friend Karen was on holidays listening to us while we're on holidays. 

He's travelling, he's travelling, a resident ISM. In many different Italian locations. 

Nothing's gonna spoil your holiday in an exotic location quicker than listening to us, but anyway, we do appreciate it. That was wonderful. What are we doing this week? Where are? We up to. 

25 April to one May 2004. 

Lots of stuff happening in the news. 

It was American soldiers serving as military police at Abu Ghraib who took these pictures. 

That I remember that like it was yesterday. The photos that came out are Abu grave in the United States. Abu grave is not in the United States, but it was with the United States soldiers. And that's where the story obviously features as Dan rather on. 

You still see those pictures? Yeah. 

Communities there, it caused so much controversy and we'll find out more about that in the news segments. 

Because you know, a lot of critics suggested that you wanted to appear jointly with the Vice President so that you two could keep your story straight or something. Can you tell us what you think of the value of appearing together and how? 

Yeah. 

You would answer those. 

Critics. Yeah. First of all, look, I mean. 

Yeah. 

If we had something to hide, we wouldn't have met with him in the first. Place. 

That's a fair point, George W Bush on his conversation with the 9/11 Commission. The interesting thing about that is that there's no recording of that. Remember, we talked about Condoleezza Rice a few weeks ago. 

Yes, all the others were televised that one wasn't. 

Yes, George W Bush and Dick Cheney were not. That's happening in the. News. 

I'm 16. Until today, I was homeschooled. And then? 

It was goodbye Africa. 

And hello high school. Hi, I'm. Katie, I'm Janice. This is Damien. 

Watch out. New meat coming through. 

This map shows the school's central nervous system. 

Yes, that movie. Do you remember that movie 20 years ago? 

Mean Girls, yes. 

That's a great film. Such a great film. We'll talk more about Mean Girls and why the remake is just a pile of steaming garbage for everyone. Sorry, it just offends me the remake. Anyway, I'm a bit triggered by that one, but we'll get to that in the in the entertainment section of the. 

Wow. 

Ohh yeah, something that's not too entertaining. I needed to buy some new earrings recently. 

Is this another Mel's getting old story? 

Yes, this is. 

Right. 

I'm getting old and I have very specific needs in. My old age. And in trying to fulfil these specific needs, I embarrass myself going into an establishment that probably isn't designed for me. 

I don't know that you embarrass yourself. I mean, it's a free country to a degree and you are more than entitled to walk into any kind of establishment that has set up a commercial retail. Umm. Outlet in any kind of shopping mall or other local commercial vending? Establishment. I don't know what I'm saying, but. You know what I mean? 

Let me explain. Let me paint the picture so. 

I tried to sound intelligent then and it just did not. 

No. That's good. Thanks. So in high school, like many of my peers, generally female decided to Pierce my own ears. So I got the first set of earrings done at the chemists. Well, the first set was in the chemist. 

If you do it yourself. 

With the gun. 

Yeah. 

Gone in year four, I think after I made. My. That's all the. Communion. No, that would be year 3, whatever. Anyway, got my. 

Right. It's a rite of passage nonetheless, yeah. 

Yes, yes, get it done at Sol Pattinson, chemist with the gum thing and it hurts a little bit and gets infected a few times. And off you go anyway. So then when I was in sort of like year nine, year 10, I wanted the double set of earrings. I wasn't allowed to. So just one night I grabbed. 

Yeah. Oh yeah. 

A needle and a block of ice. I did it myself, so did my second ones and then it was cool to have like 3 on one side and two on the. 

Wow. 

Other and then I did a third one. Is that a common thing? See lots of go. That's tough, that's like. 

Back in the day, back in the day, some people used a potato, so they'd numb with the eyes. They'd hold the potato at the back, and then they'd stick the needle through and stab it into the potato. But I just had. 

That's like. 

Yeah. 

A block of ice. 

Starchy. It's like the. Was equivalent of a prison tattoo, but it sounds of it. 

Yeah. And I didn't measure it properly. So the side that's got three holes, the three holes aren't evenly. Spaced does my head. 

Right, and now you're stuck with it. 

In. Anyway, the holes screw over. I didn't think to. And then I got the one up the top, and then apparently I got the one up the top in the wrong side because the different sides mean different things. Back in the day anyway. But the one on the top stayed open. 

Is that a fact, right? 

Cause I think it's. Through cartilage, so it doesn't close it. 

Yeah. OK. 

But the other ones closed over. 

Do you do that yourself? 

As well, no, you can't do that yourself. Potatoes not gonna. Cut it. Need the gum need. 

Like nothing would surprise me with you. Go down to the get a hobby knife and be. 

Anyway, anyway, like about two or three years ago I thought I'd really like to wear earrings again. My sister gave me a pair of earrings for her birthday and she didn't realise the holes had closed over. I really wanna wear those earrings, so I had to get the bottom ones repierced, but then the other ones I thought, oh, I did it myself the first time. 

Out in the shed. Nail gun. Ohh your city. 

So I just got a piercing here. No, but. There was still a little bit of hole. There sort of shoved it through was, yes. 

As a guide, yeah. 

But the the conundrum I have now is that I want to wear earrings, but I'm too lazy to put the the good quality earrings in at night and wear the dress earrings during the day. You can't wear dressy earrings. At night, cause and your ears get infected. 

Is that? 

Right. Well, mine do. Yuck. Cause the dressy earrings aren't made out of whatever the piercing ones are made out of. The piercing ones are hypoallergenic. 

1. 

Right. So the good. Proper piercing ones don't tend to, you know, yes, generate cheese. 

Yes, right basically so I've. 

But definitely. 

Thought I but the problem with the piercing ones is they look like you've just done your year three Holy Communion. They're very like they're very juvenile looking like love hearts and moons or your birthstone. It's just not. Look, I'm going for. 

Tickets. Are they? 

Really. 

Well, these are that these are that or they kind of look like you into some kind of. Fetish. 

It's yeah. 

The big thick ones with the bowls on the end of them, yeah. 

It's not. That's right. It's not. It's not the look I'm going for, but I just. I just want something I can just leave in full time. That doesn't look like I'm in year three. Is that too much to ask? Apparently so. But then I figured out. 

Yes. 

Body piercing jewellery. Hypoallergenic. Yeah, and looks a little bit older than year three because people are getting, you know, their lips done with that, they're getting the labret. They're getting their old fella, you name it. These things are going into all body parts so they're extremely hypoallergenic. 

Professionals, right? Yeah. 

M. 

Yeah. Even going into parts that shouldn't be pierced, yes. 

The tongue could like change the ones that go like I saw someone with like 3 through the back of their neck, through your fingers, through. 

Yeah. Dermal implants and stuff as. 

Well. 

Oh. 

Hands. I'm thinking lovely. 

Hang a nice set of curtains off it. 

Perfect. Yeah, perfect. But in order to purchase them. Yeah, I have to go into an alternative esque store. 

An alternative lifestyle store. 

So yes, it does the body piercing. 

Yes, but the in addition to body piercing, they sell water, pipes and other smoking paraphernalia. Yes, I know, I know the shop well. Yeah. Yeah. So it's perfectly legal. It's it's it's it's like it's it's like a yeah. It's got body jewellery and T shirts like novelty T shirts. 

Paraphernalia, yes, we we live in Canberra, we live in Canberra, so it's. OK, it's fine. All lovely boards. 

Yes. And then it's kind of got like a tobacconist. Attached to the side of it as well, right. Yeah. OK. 

Not background, not. 

So anyway I have. To go in there to get. 

Hmm. 

I think the things in my ears are either I don't know if it's ****** or labrette, but they fit my. Ears. So I had to. 

So you put ****** ****** rings in your ears. 

So I had to go in there and ask them for that, but for my ears. But The thing is too. 

Yeah. 

It's in a big thoroughfare. In a big shopping centre, yes, and I had to walk in there and I'm like, nobody sees me in there. 

Ohh, you don't wanna be seen. You don't wanna be seen. This is like what we talked about the People magazine last week. 

It's like, you know, like it. Whatever, I have no problem. With it, but it's just. Like people will make assumptions. I'm in. 

She'd be judged. They'll be like I didn't know Melanie had an alternative lifestyle. Hmm. 

That store as to what I'm. Lifestyle. Exactly. And all I want is just some normal earrings that I don't. 

Yes, but people might think that you enjoy a vape. 

Have to collapse. Yes, but I did. I got I got 3 labrets, I think, or maybe a ******. 3 labrats and a ******. And my ears are sorted. 

Yes. And that's filled your holes. Wonderful. I've got a I've got an alternative lifestyle sized hole in my life. And now I've managed to fill it by a trip to the local mall. Did you? Did you see anyone? You know, when you were walking? 

Yes, films, it's films. 

In there. 

No, but there was a an older lady purchasing something for their child. And there, well, that's what she said. This is for my child, not for me, for my child. 

Ohh it's not for me, it's for my child and she was older than you. Ohh mate, you're in the clear. That's a excellent timing. 

Yes, it's good. 

If you run really fast and you don't have the piercings in, does it whistle like that? It's time for the hatchets, matches and dispatches. Clue. A little sound bite, little hook through and reveal all with at the end of the show, a celebrity who was born this time 20 years ago. That said this. 

No, I'm such a fan of Duncan Dunk. I'm so happy that they're doing, like, cool stuff, though. 

Oh, oh, play it again. 

No, I'm such a fan of Duncan. I'm so happy that they're doing, like, cool stuff though. 

They're a fan of Dunkin Donuts. There's. A clue it's. 

He's really. 

Not ohh yes, and it's their birthday today. They're twenty. Well, not not 20. Today. I think they're 20 at some stage this week. Yeah, like not right now. I wouldn't even know. I have no clue whatsoever who that is. I I'll get. I'll give you a hint though. They're big on TikTok. 

So we have no idea who it is then. Hmm, still no idea. 

Let's go over to the news for the 25th the first day of our week and it's Anzac Day. 

It is, and John Howard makes a surprise visit to Baghdad to mark Anzac Day with the Australian troops in. 

Yeah, it's a pretty nice thing to do. I mean, we, we just told that Pat Tillman story last week, which was absolutely shocking. But you know, if the American troops are getting jaded about what's going on in Iraq, you could only begin to imagine how the Australian troops probably feel about. So they get the security detail happening and they throw our Prime Minister, John Howard, onto a plane. He goes into. Where did he go? Did he go to Baghdad? 

He go, he went. He he undercover boosters to Baghdad airport under extraordinary security. 

There is. There is no way in hell that John Howard could undercover boss anything. He would be a dead giveaway anytime he would. No. You're the prime. I know you're John Howard, mate. He's instantly recognisable. 

I want know his glasses. He's no. 

As soon as soon as he looks like he's wearing those glasses in real life, anytime you talk to him, you gonna know. 

It anyway at the airport there were 90 Australian air traffic controllers based and a lot of men and women had gathered for an Anzac Day. Lawn service at the air. Port, but they were unaware of who the surprise guest would be. 

Surprised. You know what I like? And this is. Look, regardless of what side of politics you fall on in Australia, I think this is actually a really dignified thing that he did. Remember when George Bush showed up and it was for Thanksgiving and it was the bad pantomime? He's like, I'm here for dinner, you know. And it was like I'm looking for somewhere to have a hot meal and, like, ohh, who could it be? 

Surprise it me. 

Of us are. There's someone else who's of a higher rate. 

Behind you. Whereas John Howard is. Like I'm gonna go to Baghdad and attend the dawn service. Yeah, for for anyone who's like, maybe from abroad that's listening to this. And there's probably not many people like, who are we kidding? But like the dawn service and Anzac Day is a very subdued. I mean, it's a holiday, but it's a very subdued time. And it it's all about reflection. It's all about acknowledgement and respect. And I I think that he did this in a very dignified way, like and he said that he did it in recognition of the efforts made by more than 850 Australians who were now at that time based in the Middle East region. 

Hmm. And he had to keep the trip secret because obviously of security risks and fears. And, like the President, he didn't leave the high security airport perimeter during the visit. It lasted less than six hours. 

Yeah, he wasn't there for very long. He's like uh, let's get the. 

And he he was. He was a. 

Yeah. 

A little bit sneaky he had left. He's he was due to appear at the Anzac Day ceremony in Canberra and his name was still on the list to appear up until that morning, so everybody thought he was going to appear. 

Yeah. 

At the the events. 

And when you talk about up until that morning like there the dawn service kicks off at what is it like 5:30 or 6:00 AM? Umm, it's very early. It's yeah, yeah. 

It's very early and nobody knew until the day, then suddenly the Deputy Prime Minister, John, I think it was John Anderson at the time he becomes this last minute replacement, it shows up as really. Ohh who's the prime? So he also addressed some of the troops on the ground in Iraq who were bused into the airport for the occasion, and he told journalists when he flew in that Australia's commitment in Iraq would be funded until at least the 30th of June 2005, saying that. 

Yeah. 

Troops would not be out of Iraq quickly. 

No, which was very disappointing or that was not good news. He did hold a a small press conference. 

There, too? Well, it's certainly the most moving Anzac Day Dawn service I've been to in some in many respects, I've been to some moving ones at Kanchanaburi and and Gallipoli itself, but there's there's an immediacy about this. 

Have you ever been to another one where there was automatic gunfire in the background during? 

The. 

Service. What were your thoughts when you heard that? 

No. 

Today. 

Well, you just get on with what you're doing, don't you? That's the Australian way. 

Get on with what you're doing. While those gunfire in the background. Sure, mate, I think that it was a bit loaded because obviously there was the visit and then and he and it was all about boosting morale. It was, it was very short lived. It was only six hours. It was only for people who were in Baghdad, really. They did bus some trips in, though. 

Well. 

Hmm. 

But. He also then announced that it was gonna be a a long campaign. They were gonna be there for a little bit longer. So, you know, I still think that the way he handled it as far as attending it was quite dignified. And he and he did it. He did a good job of that. Like I said, it wasn't the same as the all singing, all dancing. George W Bush show. 

Yeah. I'm going, yeah. 

But it was a big surprise to everyone at the time. I can remember like, like you were saying with the dawn service thing, it's like oh. Really crap. Like John Howard's over in Baghdad. When did that happen? And you know, but there was also a lot of criticism at the time as well that he was just emulating George Bush. George Bush did it in November. We're doing it in March. Alright, wherever he goes, we just copy and do exactly the same thing. I mean, it's very easy to kind of throw those stones. 

Hmm hmm. 

Yeah. 

When you're in the sick of it with your allies, I guess. But anyway, that's what happened on the 25th for Anzac Day in 2000 and. 

Four over to the 28th of April 2004, U.S. media releases graphic photos of American soldiers abusing and sexually humiliating Iraq prisoners at Abu Ghraib prison. It came to public attention with the publication of the photographs by CBS News in April and the incidents caused shock and outrage, widespread condemnation within the United States, as well as internationally. I I remember there's a couple of pictures from that that. I I could still see in my mind the the guy, the guy standing on the box in the in the cloak and the hat. 

Oh yeah. Yeah. With the electrodes attached to his hands. 

And and and the there was a couple. There was a, there was a a female soldier and a male sold. You know, posing next to a dead body, giving the thumbs up. I just vividly remember those images. 

Was he dead or naked? I don't. Know it. 

He was there was a there was, yeah. A guy that was dead. 

But it was all over the front pages of the newspapers and magazines and just everything, everywhere. And it was quite disturbing because obviously the the victims were all pixelated out. But the the very clearly revealing the faces of the soldiers who were perpetrating the crimes. As far as I can remember, the story was broken by Dan Rather, who worked for CBS. News and then went on to do a story, I think on 60 minutes in the USA he actually went on to win the the Peabody Award for that year for the expose that he did on the atrocities at Abu. 

Grave. It was American soldiers serving as military police at Abu Ghraib, who took these pictures? The investigation. Started when 1 soldier got them from a friend and gave them to his commanders. We have a dozen of them. There are many, many more. The pictures show Americans, men and women in military uniforms posing with naked Iraqi prisoners. They are shots of the prisoners stacked in a pyramid, one with a slur written on his skin in English. In some, the male prisoners are positioned to simulate sex with each other, and in most of the pictures, the Americans are laughing, posing, pointing or giving the camera a thumbs up. 

This was just another thing that just really. Set like we had Pat Tillman last week, Abu Ghraib, actually, the week prior was. And it it happened quite often, was involved in a mortar attack where there there was a significant amount of casualties, which we didn't really touch on, but it was. It's just all a bit too much, but that happened the week before and then this obviously comes to light this week. If you didn't know where, you can't remember other grave was the prison in the town of Abu grave. That was where Saddam Hussein used to send a lot of people to be tortured and to their deaths. 

Yeah, it was one of the most notorious prisons, and it held around 50,000 men and women. And in this under Saddam's regime, the torture and execution was quite frequent. So it was located around 32 kilometres West of Baghdad and after the collapse of Hussein's government, the prison was looted and everything was removed. And. Carried away. But then following the invasion, the US Army refurbished it and then turned it into a military prison. And it was one of the largest detention centres in Iraq used by the military. In March 2004, it housed around 7 1/2 thousand prisoners and at its peak it held around 8000. 

Which is significantly less than the 50,000 that were were housed in there when Hussein had control of it. So obviously, you know they're, I mean, from a humanitarian point of view, you'd like to think that given it's not as crowded, maybe it's not as bad, but unfortunately that's not the case. 

Hmm. 

The Red Cross, the International Red Cross and human rights groups repeatedly complained over. But the year prior, so from 2003 to 2004, about the American military's treatment of Iraqi prisoners with little success. 

We never heard about it, you know, like that was never publicised, like, until this news story broke. Like nobody really thought any of that. I mean, you could. You could have suspicions about it and you'd think, well, you know, OK, like maybe they do do stuff like that, like. And I think sometimes that America. Or American troops. Maybe we're getting a free pass. 

This. 

For this sort of thing, because of what had happened on September 11, but that was not the case, and especially when it started to be reported by journalists from their own country as well. 

So it came to light this week, 20 years ago, but it was on January 13th that a military policeman. Presented army investigators with a disc. A computer disc containing the graphic photos. The images were apparently being swapped from computer to computer throughout the 320th. But. Alien, The Armys senior commanders saw the photos and pretty quickly understood they had a a serious problem. Political a public relations disaster potentially tanked America damaged the war effort, and on January 16th, 3 days after they received the pictures. Central Command issued a a pretty blandly worded generic 5 sentence press release about an investigation into the mistreatment of prisoners. So they kept it. Very. 

Yeah, but that's no mention of the photos. That's just like we're doing. 

No, no. Ohh there's there's an investigation happening. 

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you gotta you gotta wonder how much more damage the war if it is gonna take at this stage. I mean, anyone who's got half a brain is like, this is not going well. Hmm. On the 19th of January, Lieutenant General Ricardo Sanchez, the officer in charge of American forces in Iraq. I think he was the one that was doing some of that bad pantomime back when Bush came to visit for. 

Ohh. 

Thanksgiving. Ordered a secret investigation into Abu Grey. Two weeks later, General Taguba was ordered to conduct his inquiry, and he submitted his report on February 26. So there was stuff going on in the background. 

Yeah. Before the fires were released publicly. 

Amongst the military were well aware of what was happening here. You know, they discovered the disc, they they knew what was going on. They were investigating it. I think with the view to obviously put a lid on it and hope that it never came to public attention. But in April 2004, Dan Rather gets under 60 minutes and airs that story, which we heard a little bit. 

Hmm. 

From describing the abuse, showing the pictures. And then articles are published in The New Yorker magazine, and it starts to the news spreads like wildfire. 

The photos themselves. Like I said, I I I clearly remember a number of them. They depicted various forms of abuse, including physical and sexual abuse, humiliation, torture and other forms of mistreatment. A lot of photos were of the prisoners naked. They were forcing them to pose in. Different axes and lie on top of each other. There was. 

There is this. Very deprived. It was very deprived. 

There was also the use of military dogs as well to threaten and intimidate, and I think in some instances prisoners were actually bitten and there were photos of them with injuries and then sort. The. Of. Bandaging the the injuries afterward. Was and then there was also the killing of Manadel Al Jamadi and the desecration of his body. And that's the one that I remember so. 

All. I think. 

He. I think he was someone who was being interrogated and subsequently died through that process, and I think there were questions around how that had occurred. But his body was put on ice and they were taking photos, giving a thumbs up. To next to his body. And I remember there was a a female and a male officer doing that. 

Didn't they? Didn't they write words on him as well? It was one of the. Anyway, it was one of them where they wrote words on them and the words were clearly in English. And that's how they kind of were able to connect it to the the the troops. 

I don't know if it was. Ohh. Maybe it was him. 

That were perpetrating these crimes is because the words were in English, but like, I mean, it was pretty obvious like they had photographic evidence. 

Anyway, several military personnel, including low ranking soldiers as well as higher, higher ranking officers, were implicated in the abuse. It led to widespread condemnation of the United States treatment of detainees in Iraq. And it did. It tarnish the reputation of the US military and the Bush administration, and it also raised questions. About the use of torture and interrogation techniques. 

Because there was a conversation and I I think this will trail back to Guantanamo Bay and all of that about waterboarding and all of those sort of techniques that they were using and the fact that they were illegal and the the United Nations were quite vocal. I remember Kofi Annan had spoken out about it as well. They wanted to know what was going. 

Water boarding, yeah. 

Going on, so these soldiers were caught, Marshall. They were convicted for their roles in the abuse. Some of them went to gaol. There was none of them got their pensions. You know, there was lots of political and legal and moral implications, and it's still a really big black mark on. The Iraq war, and especially the US military and their involvement there like it's just like we look at it nowadays and we look at, we think about things like digital footprints and stuff like that and how once something goes up on the. Internet this and as much as it was a disc that was passed around. 

Hmm. 

It's still leaked. It still got out, and once it did get out, it went viral through the traditional media. 

Hmm. 

And you can. You can clearly see everyone who's involved. 

Yeah, yeah. And it is. So then we get to the next day like that. So that happened on the when did that happen on the 28th? 

That was the 28th at the I think that was the 60 minutes report on the 28th and the next day, yeah. 

Yeah. The next day, on the 29th, Dick Cheney and George W Bush have gotta go sit in front of the 9/11 Commission and and. 

Yes. 

Testify and the difference between their testimonial and everybody elses was that Cheney and Bush were not recorded, so they didn't record any of that conversation and it was. And they were in. Yeah. 

And it was closed, so the others. Good journalists could attend. 

Well, it was closed, but it was also in the Oval Office. They didn't go to the Commission. The Commission came to them. So he's like, you're in my house. Like they went to his place and they so. I mean, we've talked about them before, but the this is the National Commission on terrorist attacks upon the United States independent, bipartisan, established by Congress to investigate September 11, and the subsequent response to that. So we talked about Condoleezza Rice. This time it's Cheney and Bush, and they are at the Oval Office testifying. Separately and Cheney, who was Vice president during the attacks, he says that or he focuses on the response to the attacks, the actions taken by the White House on the day and the broader counterterrorism efforts of the administration. Push. He talks more about his actions and decisions leading up to and following the attacks. 

I think a notable thing from bushes, testimony, and and this comes off the back of sort of what we've been talking about over the last few weeks around. The intelligence and having bad intelligence, but not actually perhaps admitting that he's his testimony, included the acknowledgement of a a series of failures. He talked about the lack of coordination between the various agencies, like the CIA and FBI. Issues regarding the sharing of critical Intel between those agencies and the Intel around a potential terrorist threat or activity that was not effectively communicated. Analytical failures around interpreting the intelligence. 

Hmm. 

Preparedness for an attack of such magnitude. What do we what do we do if something like this happens? They had no idea they hadn't prepared. They haven't even. They hadn't even conceived something to that that magnitude. Vulnerabilities in aviation security as well. He did also touch on some elements of the Iraq war, although it wasn't central to the Commission's objectives and I think. 

Well, and that's the, that's the other thing too, isn't it? Like the 9/11 Commission is not really, no. 

It's not about Iraq and whether or not they should have gone into Iraq, and this is the difference with their testimony because it was a close. 

But. 

It was a closed testimony. They didn't have journalists asking questions like they did so. With Condoleezza they were obviously. Asking questions about Iraq and potentially things that were unrelated to the Commission because this one was closed, it wasn't recorded. They they weren't. I guess they weren't facing the same kind of scrutiny as what the others that were testifying. 

I I I find it really dodgy that it wasn't recorded regardless of whether it was closed or open or not. I I I just, I just find that bizarre that they didn't record. 

Each. 

He did touch on Iraq, though, so it's all in the report which you can read online. He did say that there was no direct evidence linking Saddam's regime to the attacks, and he did also say that the attacks influenced his administration's broader foreign policy, including the decision to confront terrorism globally. 

Yeah. 

But obviously wasn't asked any follow up questions and I dare say probably covered that off in a general sense off the back of what had come out a few weeks earlier with Condoleezza Rice's testimony. 

Yeah, and he has a conversation. There's a press conference where he, he basically goes outside the Oval Office and and confronts the media after the conversation. 

As you know, a lot of critics suggested that you wanted to appear jointly with the Vice President so that you two could keep your story straight or something. You tell us what you think of the value of appearing together and how you. 

Yeah. Would answer those critics. Yeah. First of all, look, I mean, if we had something to hide, we wouldn't have met with him in the 1st place. We answered all their questions. And as I said, I think I came away good about the session because I wanted them to know, you know, how I said strategy, how we run the White House, how we deal with threats, the Vice President answered a lot of their questions. I answered all their questions and I think it was important for them to see our body language as well. How we work together. Uh. But it was a. You know, the Commissioners will speak for themselves over time. They'll they will let you know whether they thought it was a fruitful series of discussions. I think they did. I think they I think they. I think they found it to be useful. Yeah. Adam. Yes. 

Mr. President, did did this, don't you think that the families deserve to have a transcript or to be able to see what you said? 

Adam, you asked me that question yesterday. I got the same answer. 

Yeah, Adam. 

Don't you think we should give a transcript? It's it's funny because he's obviously just used all his talking points. In the actual Commission hearing and then he's come out in front of the he's like, yeah. 

I think it was pretty good, it's. 

Yeah, but it is. It's it's in the report, so. 

Just there's not a lot going on there. Well, it's in the report and the reports had some recommendations as well, which they released in July of 2004, including the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, which I'm pretty sure that Bush and Cheney would have been quite happy with because that involved, like amalgamating all the existing agencies that related to border security. 

Hmm. 

Emergency response and. Analysis and other aspects of national security. But I think that they, like Homeland Security, had a lot to do with, like, some of their response with Hurricane Katrina and and and that sort of thing as well. So it wasn't just about anti terrorism. It was exactly. 

Yeah, emergency preparedness and response. And I I guess that's that's that recommendation makes sense. When he he was talking about the failings and shortcomings of. 

Of. 

Different entities not communicating effectively and sharing intelligence. Effectively so that that. 

Yeah. That's logical. So by comparison, I think about how you know when we had COVID and all of a sudden there was a a a big disparity between like federal government and state government. And it was like there was this breakdown between federal and state, and it's like, that's the responsibility of the States and the federal government has oversold that. And we don't want to meddle with the States and things like that. So kind of brings it together. It does kind of make sense. They also wanted to have, like, stronger congressional oversight over there. 

Hmm. 

And reform all of the intelligence coordination and information sharing like you were saying, which is like what that amalgamation, I guess kind of does. But then like border security was like a really pivotal thing in there. 

Yeah. And you notice you notice that with the screening and the checkpoints and what you had to go through at at airport security and in the aftermath, yeah. Yeah. And. 

Which which still exists to this day. Yeah. 

That's a good thing. 

Yeah, I think so. The counterterrorism measures to strengthen efforts to disrupt and prevent terrorist financing will do. If they got no money, they can't really purchase weapons and. Although though I mean, you know that's that's kind of vague, having that improved emergency preparedness and response, which I think is probably related to how you know the, I mean look, could you have I I don't know like look at September 11 like look at all of these things, it's all well and good to have like a talk fest. To try and unpack all of these things, I think like you, when they're talking about this, it should be more about care for the first responders and the people that are the victims than that which is there's not a lot about that. It's all about how we're gonna be ready for it if it happens again. But it's like, well, what are you gonna do for the people? That suffered from it this time around. I mean, this is the 9/11 Commission. This is about 911, right? So. And and then I think back to John Stewart who you know had to go up to Congress to try and get compensation for some of the first responders, families who were suffering from, like, mesothelioma and all sorts of things from inhaling toxic dust. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

And and, you know, suffering from cancer and all of that sort of stuff. None of that is included there. I mean, I guess it's pretty soon after the event and those sort of effects weren't felt until maybe a few years later. I don't think they were, but I don't think much came out of it to be honest with you at all, except for strength and security and maybe they broke down a few silos between some government departments, but I don't know. I don't know. 

They probably weren't even considering it at that point. Yeah, yeah. 

No, just it. It would be wonderful if there was a transcript, but I don't think you're. 

Ever gonna see it? I'd love to know what sort of scenario planning they'd be doing today. I'd love to know because they talk about this emergency preparedness and response, right? Yeah. So they obviously have to do. Scenario plans. What are the scenarios that they are working? 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Through what are they? What? Are the things that they think could possibly occur that they have to plan for? 

We'll. 

Sit and we'll. Then when you talk about that, I'm sure that and if you watched some documentaries about September 11 and some of the more probably left of field ones as well weren't weren't they having conversations about hijacking? And you know, aircrafts perhaps colliding with major buildings and stopping infrastructure long before this happened anyway. And I'm speculating, but surely somewhere somebody had brought that up in conversation, I don't know. Anyway, let's move over to some less serious. 

Hmm. 

Potentially. Ohh, let's move into animal News cause that's what they do right in the news they. 

Please. Yeah, we need like a we need a. We need a panda story. Yeah. 

We need a panda story. Well, this isn't a panda story. This is a sheep story. And I see that you're still in this document and you've changed the date to SOUB. So I don't know what the date is for. 

That'll move. 

The story, but it doesn't matter. That was you. There was a date there in April. 

That was not. That wasn't me. I hate shared documents. See this is what happens when you break down the silos between agencies. 

See. Look. Yeah. No, but your head. Your head's still there. I can see your head in the notes. And it's you. It's not me, it's you. But we have a we have a sheep story for our friends in New Zealand. I think we've got 22 listeners in New Zealand. Hello. Hello. Thank you. Thanks. Welcome. Welcome, friends. 

I can see your head. Sorry everybody. 

2 inch love. 

Well, this is for you. Strap yourselves in. 

Do you remember? I love this story, Shrek the Marino sheep from New Zealand. Like the the sheep with the longest. Is it Coast fleet coat? Fleece? 

Fleece fleece. You had a big fleece, you know, abundant fleece. 

Do you remember Shrek? I remember Shrek. 

Yes. Yes, Shrek had. Shrek hadn't been shown for six years because he was hiding in caves in and around the South Island of New Zealand. He was in exile. He was like the bin Laden of. 

Is a great scary. 

Hmm. 

He's growing his hair out. 

Yes. 

Cheap, but he didn't do anything terrible. 

No, I didn't do anything wrong. Come on. 

No. You have a haircut, that's all. 

Please don't taste shrimp. And Merino sheep are known for their ability to survive in harsh environments, so he was able. He was able to hide from the shearing in caves in the rugged terrain, and I think they normally get a haircut once a year. So six years is a long time. 

Yes, they're very sturdy. Yes. Yes, well, they need to. Six years is a long time and it would be quite painful for poor old trek to be carrying. Think of the ohh yuck. Yes, lots of Dags. 

Think of the decks. Oh. 

On cheap and also like the weight of the fleece would be quite heavy. 

He'd be jacked under that fleece, pouring it around. Yeah. 

You'd wanna hope so. Gee whiz, I tell you what. Imagine, imagine. Once he got it off. 

Let's say. 

I should be very. Muscular. 

You'd feel like you could fly. You'd feel weightless. 

Looks like a Hulk. 

Incredible, incredible feeling. 

Yes. 

So they couldn't find him. They they tried to find him for years. 

Let's see. 

I remember there were. Stories of like, oh, we've seen this shape with this massive fleets. We need to capture him and it was an ongoing story for some time. 

Yeah, he was like a fugitive. It was like the he was like the ace of Spades for Sheers. Yeah. Yeah. So they get him. 

For a good month or so, it was like there's this sheep, this big sheep. We need to catch him and they do. 

They get him after six years. 

The big ball of wool was found. He hadn't been sheared for six years. So the Kiwis looking to make some television history shared him live on the telly more than three bags full there, a book about Shrek was written and it stopped the school from closing. 

Cross especially. 

We gotta see a naked, naked Shrek. 

There you go. So. So they put him on live TV. They made a book about him and the funds from the book obviously kept a school open, which is wonderful. Well done. 

That's. 

It's not all. Hmm, it was called the great shearing, the televised event. The the Prime Minister. 

Attended Helen Clarke at the time. Yes, she did. 

I. 

Love that. 

Yep, I've. I've got nothing better to do. I'm going to come and watch. 

It's New Zealand. Yeah, exactly. Isn't that my? 

Shrek it Sean. 

What do you have? 

Other things to do, as the Prime Minister, surely with everything going on in the night, I'm gonna go watch. 

Country that just brought you cinematic masterpieces like Lord of the Rings and then live TV over there. They're gonna she is Shrek the sheep. I mean, don't they do the RBT show as well? That's a great show. RBT. Yes, yes, New Zealand. RBT show. Yeah. 

Him get a haircut. We're going to go and watch. 

A ship. 

I love that. That's good. The drunk people. Ohh my gosh. I know. 

Feel like that probably encourages people to get drunk and drive in case they so they can get on the telly. Yeah, being on the telly seems like. 

Get on TV. That's better than being reality. It's like being on idol or or maths really, isn't it? So yes. Helen Clarke was there. 

A big deal and yeah. So so. 

They the fleece they waded 27 kilos. So underneath all of that, he. 

Yes. Yes. 

Would have been jacked. 

27 kilos. That's big. Significant weight loss. Yeah, yeah. 

That's a that's a. 27. 

That's what I'm aiming for. 27 kilos. 

I can dead lift 30, but it hurts. 

Maybe your haircut. It's good. You know how when you weigh yourself, you like you'll you'll if it's way. In day, you're gonna die. 

Ohh I always take my hair tie out. I'm like I need. I need every. I need every gramme, I take everything off. I take the hair tie out I should. 

I stripped down to nothing, stripped down to nothing. Take the earrings out, do a massive wee and and possibly a #2 as well, and then go and weigh yourself. I did it the other day. Actually I I had a weigh in and I wasn't satisfied, so I went for a #2. 

Yes. Well, if you could do it too, that's helpful. That's that's that's a good hundred grammes. 

And then I came back and it was 200 grammes lighter than what I. Was the first time and I'm like but. 

That's quite the achievement. Not really very good. 

Do you? I don't know if I should share. That with people on the podcast. 

Well, you just have. Thank you very much. So Shrek was a celebrity and he did public appearances. 

Sorry. Yes. 

And then he died in 2011, at the age of 16. I think that's good for a sheep. Isn't this particularly one with the Big Fleece running though? 

Well, that's. Good evening, trashy. Yeah, well, I reckon carrying a 27K fleece for six years would probably take a few. 

Years off your life and according to the article I read, despite his fame, his story continues to inspire New Zealanders, symbolising the importance of determination and the ability to overcome obstacles. 

He's a national hero. 

Determination and the ability to overcome obstacles. 

The ability to overcome obvious ability to avoid a haircut, he went to the barbers. It was a Barber starbar. We really did need something to cap off the news cause that was. Awful. 

It has been pretty heavy for some time now. 

Yes, with all of the war stuff. And it's good to move over to the arts section. The arts, not so much crafts, but arts. Yeah. 

Yes, let's start with the US top five, shall we? 

Everybody so many days, so many hours. I'm still burning. 

3. 

Let it go. 

2. 

If you're playing me, keep it on the low. 

Cause my heart. 

1. 

Yeah. 

My goodness, how long is usher gonna be at the top of? The. Charts. It's relentless week in, week out. I just can't believe how well that song is performing. 

For some time. That's a good. 

Oh. Is it? Well, the charts seem to say that it is so who am I? 

Yeah, I like it. I like it. I love that Maroon 5 has has walked in and gone. Ohh. OK, no. Maybe this isn't for us. 

It's not the right club for us. Yep. No. See you later. Everybody in this club is too tipsy. We're we're gonna go to the resolve. Yeah. 

See you. See you. We're going to the RSL that didn't last long at all. So actually, yeah. Still number one. Yeah. I don't wanna know. #2. Burn. #3 jaquon. Tipsy #4. I've had an idea. Read jaquon. 

None. Have you heard anything? 

No. Perhaps you could sign up to cameo and you could send him a message going. 

OK. What sending a message to? 

Why have you not returned the message to my wife? She's very sad. Could you just please say hello? 

This is getting a bit much now, isn't it? Alright, OK, why not? I'll do it for the podcast. That's Yep. 

I don't know. Maybe you could. Yeah. Or maybe, yeah, maybe just a little nudge. I don't. 

Hey, Jaquan, why don't you get back to me, missus? 

Know. Well, maybe I should do a sticker. 1st and if he doesn't buy the. 

Are you too good for my Mrs Jaquon? 

Sticker. 

Then maybe you can come in. 

Yeah. Yeah. OK. No, that's usher. 

And we have. 

OK. 

A a new entry after Maroon 5 left an empty seat. 

Ohh yes, naughty girl. Ohh, you're a naughty girl. 

Oh. 

That sounds a bit horrible. 

I know you're such a naughty girl. Sound like Frank? Three very famous Australian actor or such a naughty girl. 

I don't know what that is. Please don't do that. 

OK. Thanks. What? 

Beyoncé from her debut solo studio Dangerously in Love, Naughty Girl, mid Tempo, R&B and funk track with influences from Arabic music. It's about a woman expressing her confidence, sensuality and flirtatious nature. It's peaks at #3 on the Billboard. 

Let's go. 

Yep. 

You know the girl. 

Top 100 and sampled this Donna Summer song called Love to Love. You. 

So close to me. 

NASA's got 70s *********** written all over. 

That song was very controversial at the time. I was reading the notes at the bottom of the YouTube and everyone's like ohh yeah, couldn't watch this one on video hits with my parents. 

No, really. 

Or whatever they watched. At the time in the 70s. 

Yeah. 

But you could naughty girl, do you think? 

Yes, definitely. Definitely because naughty. 

Really. 

Girl, she the. 

Lyrics are a bit, but she's just her dancing. It's pretty. It's pretty PG interesting though, with the video clip usher is in the video clip Izzy, but he's not singing. He doesn't sing on the song. It's kind of the. 

OK. 

Yeah. 

Hmm. 

Easy. It's hanging out there. 

Uh. Sort of dancy. Kind of Fred Astaire sort of clip and he's. She's dancing with some girls and then she starts dancing with him. 

Right. 

I think he's a little handsy. Not as handsy as a Super Bowl, but he's still a little handsy. 

Right. 

It's classic usher. 

I'm I'm picture I'm picturing a scenario in my head where Usher has perhaps escaped from Daddy's house and he's in a bit of A and Diddy is chasing him and there's the kind of a pursuit through a studio back lot. 

Ohh but and then he puts a puts a disguise on and starts dancing. He's like he'll. Never know his name. 

They're almost like playing some Benny Hill themed kind of music. And he runs on to the set of Beyoncé's Naughty Girl and just kind of joins in the film clip while while Diddy, who is attempting to pursue usher for some sort of nefarious reason, is now standing off set, you know, feeling like he's been foiled. And Usher has kind of made his escape. Yes. 

Ohh just starts dancing OK? Like wherever did he go? Yeah. 

Yes, but I I mean I don't know. I mean there's there's, is Beyoncé implicated in that stuff. That no, I don't. 

Know no. Allegedly. Allegedly there's. 

I don't wanna know. No, I don't wanna know. 

Ohh so many fans. 

Isn't isn't all that Illuminati Diddy Jay-Z stuff? 

Look ohh. 

I'm saying is if you wanna know about that stuff, follow our North Star $0.50 on the socials. He's all over it. Follow him. Follow $0.50. 

Yeah. Ohh $0.50. Well, at the time of recording, no news is good news. I guess for Beyoncé. There you go. 

For the I did not know though, that her and usher were even friends. I just found that surprising that ushers in the video clip. 

Because he was trying to. 

Escape. Why would you be? What? I know it's fake. Why would you be? So you're number one with your? Yeah. Why would you then Just Dance in Beyoncé's video? 

Fake news. I'm sorry. 

Clip. 

I don't understand. He's not singing. He didn't. He didn't produce the song or do any any production on it, as far as I know. Why would you just go? Sure, I'll dance around in your. Video tight knit. 

Quite neat on earth, they're all. 

Community, I don't understand. I didn't think they were friends. Nobody's friends with Alicia Keys. Yeah, I didn't know. He's friends with Beyoncé. 

Well, I don't know. Maybe label mates, are they on the same label? 

I don't think. 

So does does he owe them a? Favour I don't. Know does she owe him a? 

Favour. Ohh, probably uncovering something we don't want to. Let's move on. Just move on. 

Right. Yes. OK. Number one in Australia is this summer. 

What I've said is the presents might is welcome. 

Number one in the UK is this. Fella. 

What I said. 

Everyone's really getting on board with Amon. 

Yes. Well, we love the scandal, and interestingly, this. 

I don't think we love the scandal. I just think in Australia and the UK, we like to swear it's a swear. Yeah, yeah. People who swear are more honest, you know. Yeah, yeah. 

Ohh it's a swear. Yeah, I know it's good when you hear it. Swear. Interestingly, the same week the album The Good, The Bad and The Ugly is released, which is from Frankie. 

Ohh Frankie, the one that was doing the retort to the Amon Song. 

Hmm. 

Ohh, I'm just having flashbacks. 

I know this. 

The. 

That's great. 

I don't think Amon should have been. When you. I'll see you in court. Like, it's basically basically ripped off his song. Just reading his song. 

No, he let her do. You not remember, so no. 

Ohh, that's right, I know saying. 

So amonde #1 for now. But then Frankie, that song's gonna go #1 very soon here in Australia, cause we we love a retort with swears, and I think she also went number one in the UK as well. So they also loved the. 

Yes, yes. 

Taught with swears and I think, well, yeah, look, if you wanna know about it, we did a deep dive. I think it was the 15th of February episode from this year and then you can find. 

Alright, do I have to go back? Listen. To that, just so. 

Drive. 

About Frankie V Amon V Simon. 

Simon. Ohh. The Dutch guy. I love the Dutch version so much better than both of those. 

Simon. Simon. 

Down on the hoof. 

Ohh so good. So good fine. Look. Yeah, it'll make more sense if you go back. And listen to the 15th of February. 

Pretty great. There's while we're on the subject of funny songs, I I didn't even think that this album. I thought this album was like a parody or a comedy thing. When it first came out, but it was actually quite serious in that Eminem was trying to bring all his mates along for the ride with him. And we're talking about that group D12, and they really said album D12 World, which is actually their second album. 

These roles. Second, yeah, so the first album was Devil's Night, which had purple. 

Yeah. Purple pills. Purple pills. It was purple pills. Yeah. 

Well, I thought it was Purple Hills because I worked on the radio at the time we played Purple Hills and then I found out about purple Bussler. Oh my God. Is that what? 

That's. 

About front, it didn't understand. I thought it was about Purple Hills wasn't. They're interesting hills. Oh, they sunset. I don't know. 

Ohh of. 

Course it was. Yes. Really. He's so innocent. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Next thing, next thing you know, Naughty Girl's gonna be all about getting in trouble. Ohh, you're such a naughty girl. Hey. Anyway, so they did their second album, which ended up being their final album as well, yeah. 

Ohh stop it. 

Yes. 

Yes. So you were saying that M&M's kind of sort of bringing them along and trying to give them a leg? 

Well, aren't they his mates? He's mates with him. 

Up which? 

Isn't he well? 

No, no this. 

That's not the story, actually. So the group was formed in 1996 by proof, who's one of the rappers? So D12 is dirty dozen, but I don't think there was 12. 

Hmm. 

Yes. 

In there. 

No, but they're all from Detroit. They're all from Detroit. 

Yeah. So 96 and then he proof invited a bunch of local. Rappers including Bazaar, Mr. Porter. 

Hmm. Bizar was the big guy that used to wear the shower cap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Yes, he did good memory conniver and bugs. Yep. And then in 1997, they released their debut extended play, the Underground EP. 

Hmm. 

And M&M actually guests appeared on it because obviously he's in Detroit as well. 

Ohh. OK, so he was never in D. 

12 He was a guest on that album. This is a year after he releases his debut album, Infinite and the same year. He releases the Slim Shady EP, but we're still two years off when he hit the big time Slim Shady LP, my name is what my name is, so we're still a few years before that. 

Ross. Yes. Ohh, this is an EP in the LP. Yes, OK. 

Yeah. 

Yes. 

So they just bring him in, cause they're like, hey, you're from Detroit, you can wrap good. Do you wanna guest? He's like, sure. So then in 9798-D12 began establishing their own reputations locally bizarre was winning all this stuff. They did their own EP's, and then they came back together, right? So then. In 1999, one of the members Bugs with Z is shot and killed. Really. Yeah. And one of his final acts had been a request that Swifty McVay joined the group so Swifty McVay joins. 

Yes. Wow, that's controversy. 

Yes. 

M&M then says you know what, I'll replace bugs so he's not trying to give them a leg up. They're already established, he guessed and then he heard that Bugs got shot. 

I volunteered to join. This and this is at this stage M&M's not anything yet. 

Well, this is 99. So no, my name is. This is. My name is time. So he's starting to hit the big time, but he's also gone. Hey, love you guys. 

He's he's doing the same. Ohh. You something? But. Might Chuck another iron in the fire? Sure. 

I'll help you. I'll help you. I'll. I'll join the group and replace. Bugs and that's when they release devil's night with. 

Yes. Purple pills. 

So then Fast forward to 2004 D. 12 World is released. Umm selling 544,000 copies in the first week, which I would have thought because people now know that M. And M's part of it? That's not a lot. When you're thinking at this time, M&M is massive. 

I think they were a bit out there though, like they were. 

Thought it was kind of a bit. 

Gimmicky, comedic. Gross out like it was like. I mean, Eminem was offensive, but it was clever. Whereas D12 was maybe a bit more crass. 

But offensive offensive gimmick. 

Hmm. 

This. 

But I think Eminem was kind of funny in D12 being crass, didn't they do that? And and there's a song in particular that seems to have been having a bit of resurgence recently on the Tik, Toks and other thing. Yes, this one. 

It's on the tip top. 

So I get off stage, right? Drop the mic, these hot chicks, and I'm all like ladies. My name is Slim Shady. I'm the lead singer and teach well, baby girl like. 

Oh my God. 

Now the rest of the fellas, kids. Tell us, especially when it's capellas. 

Is on the TikTok. 

That is funny. Yes, it's going well on. The Tik toks yeah. 

Ohh I I hate it when songs I like end up on the tick tock now. Yeah, I. At first I thought it's nice that you know the music. 

Trending on the TikTok. It makes you feel old. 

Paying, gifted, gifted to the youth of today. But now I'm just old and cranky. I'm like, no, no, don't do your stupid TikTok dance. 

Exposed to a new audience. Yeah, yeah. You see? Enjoy. It the way I would, you don't deserve it. 

To my band? No. OK, stop it. I'm just angry and old. This album was the last one to feature proof. Who died in 2006? He pistol whipped an unarmed man and shot. And then he got shot. I think he pistol whipped. No. He pistol whipped the guy and shot him. 

All right. 

OK. Yes. No, no, no. That's right. 

And then he was fatally shot by the man's cousin. 

Yeah, the bloke was like, that's my cousin and bang and then killed him. Terrible, very violent. Way to go. 

That's my cousin. 

Hmm. 

Well, two of them were shot. 

So I don't think any are. 

The other guys, one of them guys, guys, right. 

Particularly nice. 

So it's happening in Detroit. 

Since then, Eminem's, like, I'm out, he's not there and he's. 

I'm no longer the lead singer of this band. 

Yeah, he's like, screw this band. I'm going solo and it's like, didn't you? Aren't you already solo? I'm so confused. I'm so confused. Honestly, these guys, they're very hard to keep up with with all the drama they attract, they really are. 

Yes. 

It's a lot, yes. So then last year, former members Swifty McMahon can either reunited and opened for several. 

Snoop Dogg shows he's like, can I have a support of? Snoop, can I have a support gigs? 

Oops. And they performed D12 songs for that, yes. And then later that year, they played shows in the UK and the Netherlands in support of D12 World's 20th anniversary. 

I know we talked about Little Britain last week. I don't know the D12 of aged that well either, but then you the same could probably be said for a lot of M&M stuff, but then also it's like, well, that's who that group is. Like you know who they are? You know what you're gonna get. 

Yeah, that it's a tricky. It's a tricky 1 because D12 have been popping up a lot in my my what's my old school playlist? My old school playlist when I'm out doing some exercise and so that one came up and it was really jarring because that song my band features. 

Does that make sense? Yes. 

The same word that we were talking about with Black Eyed Peas and it just really sort of hit me and I was like ohh wow, hang on a minute. So like gotta call it out like gotta call that out because we we did with with Black Eyed Peas and then. 

Hmm. 

That word. 

And like well is. Is there a difference between some of this kind of offensive, gimmicky rap versus mainstream pop? Do you excuse it in one genre but not another? Like, or do you just call it out across the board? I don't know. 

I don't know. 

I think I don't know either because D12 don't go out of their way to virtue signal and claim to be all things love and happiness, and that's pretty obvious by what happened. 

Hmm. 

Proof. And it's like it's kind of part of the gimmick. Like they also sing about, you know, ****** elderly people and things like that as as it's in in Jeff in Jeff and some religious leaders as well. And it's like, it's like when you look at, you know, the music that I listen to, when you listen to bands like Cannibal Corpse whose lyrics. 

And there's some pretty bad religious slurs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Are revolting so filthy and it's almost like, how can we top it and how can we be more controversial and revolting? But it's like, I can't take any of it seriously. 

Hmm. 

Because it is so extreme and ridiculous to the point where it almost becomes the parody or comedy it look, it's it's it's a hard, it's a hard thing to kind of get around and it's an individual thing I think to be. 

Hmm. 

Honest with you? 

I was also listening in my old school playlists and I was surprised by this one because I didn't. I didn't remember it. Salt and pepper, some from the 90s, also features the same word. 

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I I I really just hate slurs towards disabled people because I just think it's. It's like it's it's just mean. It's just really mean. Look, let's go to music News 1st and 2nd of May, Coachella. 

Oh oh, just like, just like the old festival I. 

I don't know if this is a good. Completely different faith. Completely different first. 

Wonder what happened if. You wore your battle jacket to Coachella. 

Probably get heaps of respect and people wanna take selfies with me near the Ferris wheel. 

I think. 

You become an influencer. You will become a battle jacket influencer. 

Yeah, exactly. 

Yeah. 

Umm. 

Thanks, I saved the patches on myself. 

And then you could do. You could do like a day in my life and you could show yourself sewing the little patches on and getting a thumb prick. 

Exactly, yeah. Ohh is that like when they do those blogs? Well, first thing the alarm goes off at this club. 

Salam goes off and I get up and I thread my needle and I sew on my pack. 

Ohh, people consume that, don't they? They love. 

It. 

Yeah, yeah. 

They lap it up. Well, Coachella hadn't really reached the heights. The dizzying heights that it has now, but this was. 

Well this. The. Turning point, though, I think 2004. 

Correct. Like it was headlined by Radiohead. And here's some of them at Coachella. 

But I'm up. 

And I think that Radiohead was really the thing that kind of gave it the the big seal of approval, wasn't it? 

I think that and Pixies is it Pixies or the Pixies are. 

The Pixies. Yeah. Yeah, they had The Flaming Lips there. Belle and Sebastian Muse were there MF Doom, basement jacks. I've got a recording of basement jacks there from some kind. Oh my God, anyway. I just you wanna have some serious disco biscuits before you go to that. 

That's. That reminds me the time I accidentally went to the Doof Doof club and I needed to do. 

How loud is that? 

A. #2. 

I was gonna say that's that's the brow. It's the base. It's the brown, though. Yeah, everybody at Coachella went to see Basement Jackson themselves. Terrible, terrible, terrible. 

Just it doesn't go well. 

With my gut, no. Yes, it is. 

Black Rebel motorcycle club cool. Keith. Yeah, you're right. It was a turning point because of Radiohead. That's then. 

Yeah. Ohh craft work. Craft work were there as well from Germany. 

And the the festival organiser, Paul Tollett, I think his name is, he said once Radiohead give you the stamp of approval you've arrived and then he said all all these bands just started calling him up after that. 

Yeah, see, there you go. Like, well, it's good enough for Radiohead. We'd we wanna play Coachella next to you, please. 

And it got a lot of coverage and the times and Rolling Stone and it was the first year that it was a sellout with around 60,000 attendees each day. And this is still a two day event. 

Hmm. 

At this point. 

Yeah. God. Could you imagine? How long does it go for now is it? Like. 

I think they do. Two week two weekends. Is it 2 weekends and it's either three or four days. 

Ah. 

No. 

Do I look like someone who attends Coachella? 

No, I I do know that it trends on social media for a good couple of weeks. Every time it's on, it's. 

It does. Interestingly though, for 2004 there was a brief chance that it probably could have been bigger than what it was. Yeah. David Bowie. Ohh. He called up. See the organiser and said, hey, you know what? I'm going to be in Southern California that week and I'm. I'm available, but I'm only available for day three. 

I'll. I'll just broken like. 

See. 

Yeah. So not on the two days. Well, no, because they would have had to extend. 

Did they let him on? Did they let him go? They knocked him back. 

It to. Well, they would have had to extend it to three days because he was only available the day after. 

And knock back David Bowie. They knocked back David Bowie. 

And they're like, I don't think we can push it to three days. Wow. And I think the organiser is just like, yeah, that's like one big regret. 

Awesome. 

Coachella the one where they had the hologram of two. Mark, was it? Yeah. Didn't Tupac perform at Coachella? Yeah, that was Coachella. No, it was definitely Coachella. Cause I can remember seeing footage like Coachella. So. 

No, there was a hologram. I didn't think it was Coachella, was it? 

Was David Bowie really the one that got away, or could you, you know, use the marvels of modern technology? Move over to movies and TV and what not and #1 at the US box office is Denzel. Denzel is a Man on Fire thanks to 1 Dakota Fanning. That sounds weird. It's not supposed to. 

I'm gonna go get. Anyone gets in my way? Anybody who profited from it, anybody who opens their eyes at me. 

Tell me about craziness. 

I'd like to understand him. A man can be an honest and anything. It depends on how good he is, Alex. Chris's heart, his death. He's about to paint his masterpiece. 

That's right. You can hear Christopher Walken in there. It was a it was a good film. It was a good film that didn't do too well. 39% through the critics. But the audience loved it with 89% very different. Denzel. People love Denzel. They love him. Anything. He's they love him in everything. So he's in Mexico City. He's an ex CIA operative by the name of John Creasy. He accepts a job to bodyguard. 

Stenzel. Body like alive with the Denzel face. 

A nine year old kid. Which is Dakota Fanning's character who is the daughter of a businessman with lots of money. But it, I mean, I don't know nefarious things happen in Mexico City. She he. He's like this hard nosed guy. And she's like this rambunctious kid and he's like, you know, stone cold with her and all of that stuff. But slowly the cracks. But to form and they bond and it's really sweet. And then suddenly he gets shot and she gets kidnapped and then he goes on a freaking rampage to go and bring her back. And that is pretty much the gist of Man on Fire. 

Ohh yes, she's got a soft spot, yeah. The and. 

Who? 

Did she just marry? Didn't she marry someone? 

The code. 

The fanning? Ohh. She got mate. She turned 30 the other day. She's like Helen just really said turned 30. I don't know that she got married but. 

For the day. Well, does she marry someone? Who's she going steady with? I need to look. This up. 

OK, off you go. 

Because I was wowser ring about it. I was like, oh, they're too old for her. 

Really. Well, she's in her 30s. Like, how is she, you know? Is the problem with child actors from these? 

Sleeping and. 

Films, though, like every we all still when people say Dakota Fanning, we still see her as nine years. 

That's. 

Yes, I know. 

Old. And she's 30. Dakota Fanning is 30 now. 

Chris Martin. Chris Martin it. 

Is from Coldplay. Yes. No. No way. 

When a sex. When they are they? I don't think they're. I think they. Got engaged. I don't know if they still are. 

Toyota fanning. 

Yeah, that, that. 

That feels a bit old, doesn't it? He'd be older than her. 

No. What like? I mean, she's 30. He might be. What, like, 40? Something? I don't know. 

I don't know. I just thought. No, she's still a. 

Well. 

Child in my eyes, I'm just an old wowser. Yes anyway. 

Well, yes, that's what I'm saying. She's still nine years old anyway. 

Wow, that's Man on Fire. Ohh. Look, you were right. Look at you. Nostradamus. Last week he said like Ohh, why's kill Bill not number one in Australia. 

Kill Bill in Australia. 

Maybe next week. Yes, it. 

There it is. There it is. Well, yes. There you go. So kill no one in Australia and I think we need to look at the movie news though, for the 30th of April because this film has such a big influence on pop culture. Even to this day, to the point where there's a musical and now a remake of it. And I don't the. 

Congratulations. 

Hmm. 

The remake is just appalling. Like I've watched, I started watching the remake to see what it was all about, cause I actually really enjoyed this movie, which is probably a surprise to some people. But I think if you actually do watch it, you'll appreciate the way it was written and the dialogue and the comedy of it all. Talking about Mean Girls. 

I cannot believe this is 20 years old. 

Yeah. 

Yes. 

That's crazy. 

Rachel McAdams Lindsay Lohan, written by Tina Fey. I think. Lacey Chabert. Chabert from party of five. Yeah. 

The crying one, the crying little sister from party of five. 

She's in it as well. She's the one that says the line. That's so fetch. Yeah. 

That's so. Yes, in the start of the. Show it's a. 

Yeah. 

Big deal when something in the start of the show ends. Up being in an episode. 

Yeah, I I agree. Well, it's a very iconic movie and it came out on the 30th of April in 2004. For those of you who are playing at home, who maybe don't remember. Plot Lindsay Lohan's character, Katie Herron. That's CADY. Katie was taught in Africa. She was homeschooled. Her parents were scientists. And then they moved to the states. They moved to Illinois, and she gets to go to a public school, and they basically run her through the entire dynamics of the public school. And it was a real mirror being held up to, I guess that kind of society. City back in the early 2000s and it was very smartly written and pretty much bang on with a lot of stuff. It was incredibly relatable to a lot of teenagers and a lot of people were even adults who had been through school. It was just it was very fun and it had a really good morality play at the centre of it. And it was, yeah. It was one of those movies that I watched and like, thoroughly enjoyed expecting not to. 

I never watched it. I never watched it, and I've only just watched it now because I thought I probably should watch it seeing it's in the intro of the show and we're going to talk about it. So I've only just. 

What do you think? 

Watched it. The thing that strikes me is for someone who hasn't watched it and I didn't really know what it was about. So many lines and moments are familiar to me, so like, I'm not a regular mom. I'm a cool mom. You can't sit with us, stop trying to make fetch happen. Get in, loser. We're going shopping. She doesn't even go here. On Wednesdays, we wear pink. I know all of those lines, but I have no idea of the context. I have no idea of the story. And I think the fact that it is so embedded in popular culture and so many people love it, I was kind of not wanting to watch it because I thought I think I'm gonna hate it because quite often when things are really popular, I watch it and go. I don't get it or I don't like it. And I I thought. 

Yeah, well. 

Was gonna hate it, so I have been avoiding it and then we started watching the musical and I hated that because I hate the musical. 

Yes. Would that is. That is dreadful and I understand why Mean Girls went to Broadway like, why wouldn't he? He's one of us. 

By Hazel musical. Watching it on Broadway in a musical being delivered live on stage is one thing, but watching it as a musical movie. 

Yeah. 

Remade into a movie, musical movies never really work. Anyway, I don't think, but it's nothing worse. 

So that made me even more adverse to watching it, but then I I loved it. I absolutely loved it the whole way through I was. 

The original you love the original, yes. 

I was just going this is excellent. And then you you can tell that it's written by Tina Fey. You can feel that Saturday Night Live. I've vibe throughout a lot of the jokes and a lot of the dialogue, and it is it's very clever because you come away from it going. 

Yeah. 

Hang on a minute. Who actually is the mean girl in all of this? Actually, they all are. And it was a really, it was really good. 

Of us, all of them. 

I I I mean it's hard for me to comment on the whole mean girl side of things except to say that you know a lot of my experience with a lot of girls that I've ever socialised with or. Hung out with is they tend to have that tall poppy syndrome where they're always gonna cut down anyone who's a bit more successful than them. It's like and it's like. That's kind of what I think it was all about. You know, like anyone who appeared to be more successful, they try and sabotage. Yeah, I think it it it it had really good messaging behind it anyway. And I I can't comment on that. I mean, I'm not a girl. I don't know anything about what it's like to be a girl. But I I I do see the way. Girls behave towards each other sometimes, and it's that that whole, especially in school, you know which group do you reckon you would have hung out with out of all of those groups like, you know how they have the geeky Asians and the mathlete. 

Hmm. 

In school, yeah. Name. 

Ohh. 

That's in there. 

Yeah, I I don't think any of those. 

Groups. 

Ohh I'd I straight up the burnouts. I would have been with the burnouts. You don't see the burnouts too much in there cause they're not doing much. But that would have been my group for sure. 

Were me. The bed out. The yeah. Yeah, I I probably would have been the nerds or the drama kid, but not that I'm a drama quit kid, but they seemed quite accepting. Anyone who puts Devon on their face in in the tuck shop is like. 

As. 

As long as you know the the promiscuous band camp kids, they were, they were a bit full on, weren't they? The band kid, yes. 

No. Oh no. We had those in college like they well, they weren't band kids, but they were. They were promiscuous, called nerd, no. 

Naughty girls. Oh, you're such a naughty girl. 

They were promiscuous nerds. And they got in trouble for grinding in the common room once. It was. It was very unpleasant. It was very unpleasant to watch and tell you. I was trying to. 

Getting a little bit too common with each other in there. Wow, that's gross. Yes. 

Eat but you. Go roll cause. The common room was also where you ate your lunch, cause the tuck shop was there, it's really like. Trying. To eat can't eat my my cabbage rolls deep fried the thing while you were grinding on each other. This is. 

Yeah, you. Fit with us. 

Wow. 

Pretty much, but you know, I like the message and I think I really liked the bit where Tina Fey, so they they took all the girls into the gym to have a talking to and the principal starts and he's just like. 

Oh. 

Oh, yes, yes. This is after the burn book comes out, where it's gonna, and they basically tear each other to pieces. 

Yeah. And they ask, you know, does anyone want to say anything? And one girl says something and the principles. I'm out and then goes Tina Baker and talk. 

Ohh yes, she. Talks about her menstrual cycle or something in the male principles like I'm I'm not equipped to handle this. Yeah. 

Yes, it was very. It's very graphic and he's like this is too much, too much. But I really liked the message when Tina Fey was talking about the way that they all referred to each other and called each other names and she was saying something. Along the lines. Of well, if you guys do that, then you're saying that it's OK for men to call you that and treat you like. 

Yeah, yeah. 

That and she just that. 

The speech that she gave in there, I'm like that should be played in every high school, so every female student, it was just so powerful. It was really good. And I. Loved it. 

Excellent. I'm glad. 

Let's go five stars. 

Five stars for Mel. It's five stars for Mel, like Margaret and David here. Excellent. Look, let's go over to TV news. Speaking of institutions with TV, and I know Margaret and David were. But do you remember this thing? 

Ohh. 

Ohh my God, get the pyjamas on and your cup of warm Milo Sunday night at the movies. 

It's. 

Pretty full on fanfare. Sunday night at the movies, and they're usually would there be a voice over at tonight's Sunday night at the movies features? 

Yeah, that's that was the instrumental version, but usually there'd be someone talking over about what the movie was, yeah. 

Yeah. So that's Sunday night at the movies. Channel 10 have decided to axe Sunday night at the movies on the 1st. Of May 2004 due to. Poor. Apple ratings for Sunday it's Sunday night. 

Outrage, and I think all of the networks did it in some form. It wasn't just channel 10. 

What are you talking about? 

They ended up tanning so and I used to love Sunday night at the movies when I. 

Was a kid because you had wonderful world of Disney was sort of like the precursor. 

Yeah. Uh-huh. 

And then you'd have Sunday night movies, and it was usually a family friendly. Kind of movie. 

Well, you said, well, it was on after 60 minutes, which was not on channel 10, but back in my day we only. Had two TV. 

Two channels that you see. 

Stations the ABC and the commercial station, yes, and Sunday night at the movies was part of that as. Well. 

Is that yeah, channel channel 10. Well, what was? 

I think it was the Australian television network or something to that effect, but it depended on where you went. When I was in Tasmania it was Taz TV, you know, like it just depends. Yeah, TAS, TV, it's got a. 

Called. 

That's the issue. 

Test TV. 

Ring to it, doesn't it? No, that sounds really. Immature. Yeah. Well, they're progressive. They had the wrestling before anyone else in Australia. Yes, that's TV. 

That's TV. No, I don't like. It. 

Yeah. 

It's interesting though, because they would having poor ratings because of. When you look at early 2000. So yeah, obviously had cinema and cinema is starting to become cheaper and more accessible, but DVD. 

'S. 

Videos the Sunday night at the movies is really. Starting to suffer on free to air. 

Yes, yes. 

At this point. So they were like. What are we going to do? And I think because that's sort of the precursor and the lead into. You the week, so it's kind of like breakfast TV where it kind of sets up the day of programming Sunday night. The movies are sort of like the lead into the new week. So everyone wants to win. 

Yeah. 

The Sunday night ratings. So they're like, well, what are? 

We going to do nothing. We'll axe Sunday night at the movies for starters, and then we'll figure it out. Hello. 

Devastating. 

You know what else I think may have affected it? I don't know. Did you used to record Sunday night at the movies? You. Record it and if it was a movie that you really liked, you'd you'd pause out the. 

Hmm. 

Ads poured out there. Yeah. Took me a while to figure that out. Cause for the first few years, well, my dad would report my dad was in charge. He'd press stop, and so then. But then you'd have a bit of snow in between as well, so you'd have, you'd have it cutting out. You'd have. 

But don't press stop because it takes time. Then you'd lose the last 30 seconds. Yeah. 

Snow. 

Yeah. 

And then it would come back in and it was just so annoying we didn't get on to that poor thing for a while. And when we did, jeez, it was good. 

Well, then you go and make a cup of tea and then you. Come back and be halfway through it. Do you know my? One of my favourite films of all time was aliens, right? And and the first time. The first time I saw that was at Sunday night at the movies and somebody had recorded it for me. And unfortunately the tape ran out. 

They played that on free to air. 

What? 

Yes. 

So, so. So what happens is is I always thought aliens ended when they flew away from the planet, so I never saw the scene. 

Ah yes. 

Where the Queen comes out of the thing and they have the big showdown on board the actual ship and she blows the queen alien out of the airlock. I never saw that. I never saw the Android get ripped in half or anything. So for like at least five years, I thought that's how aliens ended. And then I saw it. 

Oh. 

You didn't know. 

And I was like, Oh my God. Blew my mind and the other thing that they used to do though is. 

Yeah. 

They used to you. They click on the TV, right? So they used to edit the bad language out of certain movies. 

Yes. They just dropped the audio. They wouldn't. They wouldn't actually cut it, they'd drop the. 

Sometimes, sometimes I remember. So yes, that's. 

Audio, wouldn't they? 

Right cause predator. 

They did that on planes, trains and automobiles, cause I and all they did was drop the audio. But I didn't understand. And then when I watched it on on real hired video and it had F in it, I was just like. 

With the car scene. 

Yes. 

Blown away what? Well, that was like, die hard. It would just be yippee Kaye, and you'd be like, hmm, that's a bit lame, but. And I can remember on on the movie predator, there's the scene where. 

Ah. 

Schwarzenegger comes up to Carl Weathers character at the beginning, and he's in the CIA, and he's wearing a tiny he's like, what's with this sucking Thai business? But on the on the TV version, it's like, what's with this Thai business? It was just like, cut. 

Yeah, they just like cut the. 

Off but lethal. Weapon was an interesting one because Mel Gibson has an Australian accent. That he. It's like he did like something about. I'm a real cop. This is a real badge. And this is a real looking gun. That's what he says in lethal weapon. But he goes. I'm a real cop. This is a real badge. And this is a real firing gun. And I'd seen lethal weapon before I'd seen it on. 

Mm-hmm. 

The TV that somebody says. 

Ohh, they put firing in. 

He said firing instead, you could say the loser is like just yeah. 

That's trippy. I like that. My dad, my dad became a sensor, so once he figured out that you could once he. 

Figured out. Ohh not not as his official job title do. 

You could pause. No, no, no. Once you figured out you could pause instead of. 

It at home. 

Mm-hmm. 

No, he's like. If there's something in the movie that I don't want the kids to watch, I'm just going to hit pause. So on Temple of Doom, he felt the bit where they ate the monkey's brains. 

I'll cut it out. 

Was too. Much for us, so he. 

Ohh yes, that messed with a lot of people. 

Paused. Well, thank goodness, because I. Don't think I could have handled. 

What about the scene where he pulled the guy's heart out? 

It. He paused. He paused that as well. 

Oh, that's so disappointing. 

He hit pause, but he was a bit slow. He was a bit slow on the pause for the the pulling the heart out because you saw. The hand go. And then I'm like, Oh my God. And then he hit pause. So you knew what was gonna happen. I think that was even worse, because then you'd like visualised it. In your mind. Yeah, no. Cut that. Yeah, yeah. 

You missed all of that. 

Yeah, my dad paused that. But he also paused the monkeys brains. He did well, he did. Well, was. 

That's devastating. Good. That's why you Snowflake now, because you never got to see this. The whole thing with all those movies back when you were a kid and they used to. 

Made the monkeys branch. 

Do those things to terrify you exactly. 

On Sunday night at the movies, when you're watching it with your family. Ohh, there's someone's heart just in someone else. 

Yeah. 

'S hand great. 

Yeah, yeah. Wonderful. 

That's. 

A good chat about Sunday night at the movies I liked. 

That. Hmm now. 

I miss Sunday night at the movies. 

Do you reckon? 

You know, like, now that we've gotten to this point where there is. Too much to choose from? There's too many subscriptions to be had. You've just got the whole world at your fingertips on the Internet. Do you think maybe if channel 10 just brought back the Sunday night at the movies, so you just, you know, lead into the week, you don't have to think of what to watch. It's just there for you and your family with ads so you can go to the. Will it? I reckon it would. 

Work. I think it's a good idea, I think, because Sunday night at the movies on a streaming service where you're spending so much time scrolling through trying to pick something, yeah. 

Then we should float it. Trying to figure it out, it's like Sunday night is over by the time. 

You need to take that. Yeah, it becomes Monday morning at the movies. You need to, like, try that. You need to, like, make the choice. 

You decide on something, yeah. 

For us. 

Yeah, it's like it's like the mental load. Take the mental load off me. Like, take one thing away that I don't have to think about. I'm gonna have to watch the monkeys brains. Fine. Fantastic. Let's all sit around, have our Milo watch some eating monkeys brains. 

We'll see. Well, now I feel. The tea, because it's the hatches, matches and dispatches segment and we do put a mental load on our dear listeners with this. With the clue and the mental load is quite heavy this week, cause I have no there, isn't I. 

I. 

Don't understand how anyone could have guessed this. 

27 kilos of fleece heavy, isn't it? 

Well, this is. Really easy. I feel like Shrek and until I know the answer to this I'm I'm I'm not gonna feel adequately, Sean. A celebrity who is 20 years old, who was born this time 20 years ago that said this. 

Yeah, I know. 

No, I'm such a fan of Dunkin Donuts. I feel like I'm so happy that they're doing, like cool stuff though. 

Yeah, I'm happy that Dunkin Donuts are doing cool stuff as well. I look if you said Charlie de Emilio. And you would they correct? 

Let's be real. I don't think anyone said that and it's no, it's no shade on, Charlie. It's just the demographics of our listeners. But our demographics as well. We don't have anyone in that 20 year old category and unless it's, say, a stranger things kid, no one's going to get that. 

Alright. 

We're too old for her. 

Well, there could be some people with. To you know. 

And maybe. 

Following just are well aware, so Charlie is a is it Charlie or Charlie? I don't even. Know. 

Going to go with Charlie, I think. 

Spelled CHARLI. 

Well, that's what you do, isn't it? 

Emilio, a dancer who's considered Tik Tok's biggest star biggest star on TikTok. I've been on TikTok for. 

Biggest star on TikTok. 

Time now, but. 

You haven't come across Charlie. 

The algorithm's not pushing Charlie my way. Wow. 

Well. 

Yeah, probably that makes sense. 

I'm almost offended at what the algorithm is pushing me on. 

What's the algorithm pushing you? 

****, just **** all day. It's it's. Cheats. 

Yeah, they followed you into the newsagent back in the 80s when you were looking. At People magazine. 

That was last episode. Give me a break. So she spent 10 years as a competitive dancer before she got on social media in 2019 and started posting all the dance videos. And then she took off on Tik. T.O.K huge tik. T.O.K just was like, Yep, we like what you're doing and we're going to definitely push you out to lots of people. And I think she was like the most. Followed creator on there until you know 2022 or something. So it's from 2019 or 20. 

Yesterday, she was surpassed by. 

22 yeah, yeah. 

Carby Lane, Carby lane. 

OK, Carby lane. Yeah, cabby lane. 

Kabelin. 

Hmm. 

I don't understand the tick tokers. 

Don't know whoever they are, you know? And because she's on TikTok and she's got over 100 million followers, they decided to make her make a song. 

It was like. I guess it's too soon, but I'll come running if you ask me to. 

Hi anyway and I know this might sound cruel but that is absolute dog that is utter *** **** and it. 

Which is in a movie called. Stardom you turbo cat. 

Well, we'll talk about Star Dog in a minute because she at least does some. It's acting there that the song is auto tuned within inches of its life. You can you can't even hear her actual voice there. That is all auto tune. It's. I can't. And that's just makes my soul hurt. 

Hmm. OK, you're right. I went through her TikTok and I found well, I. 

My soul aches for. 

I don't like scrolling back to you, don't you? When you like, try to scroll back to see people's first post. Could you like, I'd like. 

Yeah. 

To see what you were at the start and. 

Yeah, it all. How it all began, yeah. 

How you've evolved? Yes, how it started, but versus how it is now, I was too lazy to do that, but somebody else had done so. I could watch them scrolling their computer all the way back to her first video. 

Sure. 

Sure, sure. 

Uh-huh. 

And I watched a first video and like again, no shade Charlie, it was really boring cause, you know when like when they say she's famous for her dancing videos. 

Hmm. 

Look, I'm sure she's a great dancer. 

What do you think? Like you think? Amazing dancer. You think you know, like that girl that we watched called Kelly, who wears the green screen that does all the special effects. And she got famous on the tick tock during COVID. And she's amazing and she dances with Paula Abdul. And she danced with another girl that looks like a young Paul Abdul who also. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yep, Yep, Yep. She's phenomenal. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Picking up what you put in there. 

Dances with Paula Abdul. So you think that's Charlie? Yeah, she was standing there with a friend doing. You and I are probably just as synchronised. You know, when we did the. 

TikTok, that's a big call. I've done it. 

It's about that standard. It is about that, that standard. 

And and let me tell you. If you go to look for us on Tik. T.O.K, you won't find it. I figured it. Yep. 

Did you take that? Dance down. But that's what I'm saying. Like I was. I'm like. That's number one on TikTok like. No, no offence. I'm sure you got better cause I only watched your first 10. 

Is it because she was an early adopter? I don't know. 

Maybe it's because she's an early adopter because she did some lip syncing as well, like. 

Then I. 

Uh. 

To voices of funny things. And it wasn't funny. 

Yeah. Well, Shelly and and she did, do she? Did do some voice acting in a film that was animated called Star Dog and Turbo Cat. 

I'm very excited to be working on my first animated movie because I feel like it's something that maybe not everyone would be comfortable to try because it's very out of the box, I said. We've still got all the broken gadgets and robot parts they threw out. Of the museum. Plus we've got access to a tactical operations goldfish. 

Yeah, it's dogs too anyway. Sorry, I don't know, it's just it's all about clout, isn't it? It's all about. It's all about it, doesn't you don't necessarily need to be talented, says the autotuner after. 

Isn't that interesting? So now you can be an influencer to get a voice acting gig in a movie because it used to be celebs. We are old and bitter we nobody cares about us and. 

We you know what? We sound really old than me. We do. It's a birthday and we just. It's her birthday and we've completely on her and just be. Look, she won dancing of the Stars. She won the 31st Dancing Dancing of the Stars. Yes, that's what the. 

Dancing off the stars. 

That's what the old Greek ladies. You watch the come over and watch the dancing of the stars. Dancing with the stars. She went dancing with the stars. 

And I think her family had a reality show. I think there was, like, this whole reality show around her family as well. So she's she is quite, quite famous. She's done a lot of things in her 20 years. And again, we're just old and tired and cranky and good on you, Charlie. And I hope you have a nice birthday. Many happy returns. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, like. 

What the **** would we know? We're sitting here in a junk room doing the ******* podcast. Bunch of radio has been so can't string two sentences together cause we had too much beer. Anyway, happy birthday. That's the end of the show this week. 

We'll believe it the yes. 

Best. Yeah, I think so. I don't know what's happening next week, but I do know that I'm very grateful for anyone who's made it thus far and has been listening to the entire show. It means. The absolute world to. 

Hello to our friends in New Zealand. 

Us. 

Yes. 

If you're at the shearing of Shrek. 

Jura. 

Send us a note. 

The shearing of Shrek, yeah. 

Ohh yeah yeah so. 

Yes, if you were there, if you're there IRL, send us and send us a. Photo that'd be good. 

Absolutely. We've got a whole bunch of stuff and nonsense for you next week. I don't know. Let's try and keep away from the Iraqi stuff. We'll see where the news takes us, though. It is interesting. I will say that it is very interesting. The stuff that we just did then about that TikTok person, not so much. But anyway, there you'll find those stories and more next week on T -. 20. Thank you very much for listening. Go on. Follow us on the socials. Facebook. Instagram. Tick tock. We'll see you. Next week, see. 

You. Bye. Thanks for taking the time to rewind. Join us next time for another week. That was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials search for T -. 20 Podcast on Facebook.