Livestrong, lie strong: the rise and fall of Lance Armstrong

💛🚴‍♂️ This week on T minus 20, we offer you a yellow bracelet and a whole lot of controversy. Lance Armstrong’s Livestrong bracelets were the hottest accessory, sported by celebs from Eva Mendes to Tom Hanks, but beneath the yellow silicone lay a storm of doping allegations. We dive into the French exposé “LA Confidentiel” and Armstrong’s fiery denials as he pedalled his way to a record sixth Tour de France win.

🔫🕵️‍♂️ Jason Bourne is back and more badass than ever. Matt Damon reprises his role as the amnesiac assassin, dodging bullets and unraveling conspiracies. Relive and reminisce about the sequel that had audiences on the edge of their seats.

🍔😂 Grab your munchies and join Harold and Kumar on their epic quest for the perfect burger in "Harold & Kumar Go to White Castle." Kal Penn and John Cho take us on a hilarious ride filled with absurd adventures, including a wild cameo by Neil Patrick Harris. We’ll chat about how this stoner comedy became a cult classic and why it still makes us laugh out loud.

📺💰 Trevor Butler snags the biggest cash prize in Aussie TV history, winning Aussie Big Brother. We take a look back at the 2004 season highlights, the iconic housemates and *that* Merlin eviction.

📚🇺🇸 As if we haven’t had enough of politics lately, we dive into the pages of Bill Clinton's blockbuster autobiography "My Life." This 1,008-page behemoth offers a candid look at the 42nd President’s journey from a small-town boy to the leader of the free world. 

Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.

Chapters

• 0:00 intro
• 0:26 show opener
• 7:10 news
• 41:42 music
• 48:31 movies and tv
• 1:13:00 books we didn't read
• 1:21:22 hatches, matches and dispatches
• 1:33:29 show closer

Transcript

Transcript is generated automatically.

The year is 2004. Your polyphonic ringtone habit is sending you broke. George W Bush is sworn in for a second term, and in spite of everything going on, the most controversial thing is a wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl. T -, 20 rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. 

Week OHH 25 July 2004. 

The rest is history. You know what? I'm very forgetful. 20 hello there, stop trying to make fetch happen. What we're waiting for. 

This is harder than I thought it would be. 

My fellow Americans. 

20. 

Let's roll. Indeed, welcome into T -. 20 where we are going to culturally exhume the grave of the early 2000s, where your grave robbers, Joe and Mel, here along for the journey. Hello, Mel. I know it is very spooky, but you know it's very important. It's a nostalgic odyssey to the early 2000s where we look back at everything that happened in music. 

Oh speaking. 

The movies and popular culture, and especially the news 20 years ago with lots of stuff happening this week. 

When Nike came to me with this idea. Of. Making 5 million yellow respin, selling them for a dollar apiece. Helping us raise 5,000,000 bucks at live strong. I was like, wait, what? 

Wait, what? 

We've got a a fashion sport crossover this week. Yeah. Yeah. A very popular yellow wristband in the lead up. To the Tour de force. 

I know I mentioned news, but we're actually probably gonna just jump straight into sport this week anyway. Then there's this. 

Harold never got too far with the. 

Ladies, the only girls who are interested in me are girls. I have no interest there. 

Kumar never got much respect. 

The name is that. Anyhow, Kumar, where's the five O's? Or two U's. 

Great film. Yeah, we're gonna. We're gonna go to White Castle a little bit later on for some tasty burgers, and we'll talk about when Mel and I went to White Castle as well in that part of the show. 

Kind of a classic. 

It's time to announce the winner of Big Brother. Now as we know, the winner of Big Brother is the winner of $1 million. 

$1 million for the winner of Big Brother. Well, it was Ollie. 

That was the largest amount ever given away on Australian TV at that point, so sorry, that's a lot of money. Yeah, yeah, two or three. 

This party season 2 of Big Brother, wasn't it like if you're in, I think it was two. If you're in season one, you would have thought that was a bit of a rip, wouldn't you? 

Yeah, yeah, good. 

Maybe it was season. No, it was season 2, definitely season 2. We're talking the week commencing the 25th to the 31st of July 2004. Incidentally, and. Yeah, all that and more tonight. This morning, this evening, wherever you are in the drive to work, school, home, whatever. At the gym. On tea burners, 20. 

It's time of recording, however, we've been hit with the Y2K bug 24 years too late. 

Yes, we have. And isn't that an extraordinary thing? So we we we've left we normally record a few weeks in advance but we've let ourselves slip a little bit and and as a as a consequence there was this massive. 

We'll let ourselves go lazy. 

Incident that happen. This week, where Microsoft pushed to software update or was it Microsoft or crowd strike? One of those two? 

It was. 

A. 

Company. Yeah, it was a cyber company pushed an update that affected Microsoft globally somehow. 

Would in broad payment systems in petrol stations and check-in counters at airports and all these other things to their knees. 

Except except Microsoft Teams and outlook was still working. 

Yeah, which is disappointing cause it meant that I still had to finish work on Friday. So that was a pain. But but isn't it interesting to see how dependent we now are on these sort of system? 

Everyone at work. 

To the point where The funny thing I was listening to the radio and they said Ohh, so if you've got any cash lying around and it's like nobody wants cash anymore, nobody accepts cash anymore. And if you do present cash anywhere they think. You're dodgy well. 

We were already talking a a month or two ago, remember they had that cash day and encouraged everyone to take money out of the ATM because we were worried about becoming a cashless society. 

Yeah. 

Look what happens. 

Casing toys? Yeah. Otherwise, we're trading like bottle caps and stuff like. 

Him fall out. I just really wanna grab my guava cruiser, put on jeans and a nice top, put on a pair of flip flops. It just is. So Y2K. Remember, in the lead up to the year 2000, how we were so worried that the world would just come crashing to a halt because what was it something to do? 

Hmm. 

Yes. 

This computers would have thought that once they clocked over, it was. Yeah, because the the way in which computers were programmed, they were worried that once it clocked over, they would think we were back in the 1900s and that it would bring the world to crashing, crashing to a halt, that you wouldn't be able to do anything or. 

Calendars. It had to do with calendars. The Millennium bug. Yes. 

Access anything that be trouble with things like critical infrastructure emergency services. 

Yeah. 

Everything that was kind of happening. 

This way. 

There's a little return of the Mac for Y2K, unfortunately. I mean, it wasn't quite as catastrophic as, well, Y2K. It wasn't catastrophic either. So it didn't really matter, but it was an A just a pain in the, really, that's all it was. And originally, it was like, oh, is there a cyber attack or anything? It's like. 

OK. 

Some dude. At some company had just pushed out a software update that probably wasn't as well. 

Hmm. 

Who? Yes. Do you wanna update? Now, yes, yes, yes, let's do it. 

Yeah. No, no, don't don't. You do. And I I understand the software update, the perils that come with the software update, especially if you're on like. 

Yeah. 

Always rolling the dice. 

Well, you know, you might update your operating system, for example, on whatever platform you're on, and then all of a sudden all the other pieces of software from independent developers who don't speak to. 

Hmm. 

The company that are pushing the updates, who are who are not on the same page. None. Of their stuff works. 

So I wait a year. Usually I'm usually a year behind. Yeah, I feel like that's a. 

Yeah, really. That's bad. That's bad. That makes me nervous. That makes me nervous. I think I want to start pulling all the cash out. 

That's a good buffer. It's a good. 

Buffer. 

Of our joint account. 

I think I'm. I think I'm still on Jaguar on my on my. 

No, I think I'm. I'm if if you're doing that and you've got access to our joint account, I'm pulling it all out and we're cash now. We are cash based. 

Mac. 

Lord, there's more. There's too much recorder in the front end of this episode. Now. We've returned to the Mac, and now we're doing the hatches, matches and dispatches. Clue. No, I mean, you've got two singles out there now. You're halfway towards at least an EP. That's wonderful. You're like the Kenny G of the recorder. 

I'm not upset by this. We're gonna go platinum before you know it. Excellent. 

OK, a celebrity that is having a birthday that said this. 

They say that age is nothing but a number, but technically it's also a word. 

We'll find out who the voice is behind that grab at the end of the show. They're having a birthday. Did I mention they're having a birthday? They're having a birthday. 

Hmm. 

When I was front loading at the beginning of the show, I said I've mentioned news. Yeah, but there is no news this week, so we'll do this. 

You did, yes. 

Straight into sport, straight into sport, and we're talking about sport from the week commencing 25th of June, July. I don't even know what freaking date it is. I think I've got the Millennium bug. 

You're right, you. 

2004 No, I just need cash. That's all I need. Just give me cash. So we're talking about the 25th of July and in the lead up to the 2004 Tour de France the most. 

Need. Some panadol rapid. 

OK. 

Important must have accessory for anyone. Wasn't what? What is it? A cardia? 

Ring. Yeah, they were big early 2000s. 

Mark Mark Jacobs bows. Did you hear those? 

Have one. 

I couldn't afford. 

That. Couldn't you? No, no. You're a radio announcer. Yeah. Nobody could afford anything. No, we lived us. We lived a free Coke and loves the bread and misses Max pies. That's how we survive. No, it was a yellow silicon gel bracelet that cost. 

I went to the. Spray was about the standard. Yes. $1.00. Eva Mendes wore one she did Ben Affleck, Matt Damon, Ashley Judge Tom Hanks. That's Jason Lewis, hunk from sex in the city. 

Everyone did. Matt Damon? Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Silicon yellow silicon. The bracelet was created by Lance Armstrong and Nike to raise money for the Lance Armstrong Foundation. 

When Nike came to me with this idea of making 5 million yellow wristbands, selling them for a dollar apiece, helping us raise 5,000,000 bucks at live strong. I was like, wait. But that that'll never work. 

Listen up everybody. 

America is ramping its wrists in. 

Yellow. The yellow wristbands showed that people wanted. To be a part of. Something bigger. Riders in the tour wore them the Olympics in Athens were a month later and Nike gave them out to all their athletes at the Olympics. You had a presidential campaign later that year where John Kerry wore it every. Day. 

Before the Lance Armstrong Foundation, what it was like to have cancer was totally different. It was much more private and much more. Related. 

Let's remove the stigma of being a young. 

Adult with cancer. 

Yeah, it did. Look, I before. I mean we're gonna get into more stuff about Lance Armstrong in a moment. 

It is a Land's heavy episode. 

It's a very Lance Armstrong heavy episode because there wasn't much else going on this week. If we're being honest, but they the live strong movement at that time in 2000 and. Four was massive. 

That yellow band, iconic everybody you can. Everybody knows what that band was. If they did not have one, they still know what that band was. All proceeds from sales went to help young people suffering from cancer. So a really good cause. 

Everyone had those yellow bands. 

Yeah. 

And it was launched probably a few weeks before where we are right now because it was launched in the lead up to the Tour de France. So like Lance said, Nike produced 5 million of the bracelets that red lives strong, which was his personal motto and yellow also being the colour of the leaders jersey in the Tour de. 

Yeah. 

Hmm. 

France. 

Now, in hindsight, also the colour for cowards. Sorry. Anyway, no, but it was. It was the leaders jersey and they he just went like wildfire. They didn't. They didn't just. 

Yeah. 

Sell 5 million. They sold hundreds of millions and raised hundreds of millions of dollars for Cancer Research. So that was the biggest fashion item. And by 2013, I think it was around 80 million bracelets that have been sold according to and like, I'm not gonna doubt this source. 

9. 

Oprah Winfrey. 

Ohh yes, she knows her stats. 

So oppressive you get a livestrong band and you get a livestrong band and you get a livestrong band. Yeah. 

And it really. Started that whole movement of silicon wristbands for charities. Well, do you remember sort of in in the years that followed? So the, you know, 2000 and eight 2009? Yeah. That was a really big thing. It was like it it come 2 bucks for a bracelet and every charity. Yeah. Started selling them after that. 

Hmm. 

Nothing was ever as iconic as the yellow Livestrong bands. 

Well, as far as the. 

Fashion item goes, though I think too, like a silicon wristband is great cause they don't. They don't, kind of, they're fairly indestructible. You can wear it in the shower and the water it's. 

Tandy. You can wear it in the shower. 

Not gonna get damaged. I wear instead of wearing my actual wedding ring, I wear a silicon wedding ring because it's just it's more comfortable. It's it, it's it puts out a very clear message to any of the ladies who are trying to approach me that I'm very much spoken for. I know, I know. It's hard. It's hard. I've got a. 

Wear it at the gym, wear it in the pool. Thank you. I appreciate that. So don't have to get in any scraps. Thank you. 

I was gonna say beat them off with a stick, but that sounds weird. Anyway, it sends a very clear message. My silicon wedding band and the Livestrong silicon bracelet was I support. 

There was. 

People with cancer and the fight against cancer. So if you didn't have one, you're a bit of a toll, really, aren't you? Yeah. 

A worthy cause. Yes, yes. But it did like like the you said in that grab as well it it brought it into the conversation as well. I don't think at that stage we had a lot of charities openly talking about it, particularly cancer affecting younger people as well. But there was one down for with the Livestrong bracelet after you wore it in the shower and at the pool and at the gym. Him after about eight months or so, they did have a tendency to snap, and that was just the worst day of your life. And your silicon live strong broke. I think you could melt them together. You'd get like a cigarette lighter and kind of melt it and and push it back together. But it was a it was a weak point, was a weak point, and it was likely to break again. 

Did they break? Did they? Yes. Yes. Fuse it back together. Revealed. Well, at least it wasn't like. Remember, remember the black silicon bracelets? It used to be. 

The Madonna bands. And when someone broke it, what that meant? Oh. Yes. 

Yeah. One of those ones. 

I don't think. The Livestrong band meant the same thing. 

Do you call them Madonna? 

Bands? Well, no, I wasn't gonna say the real band, the real name. 

Well, they just called root band. Ohh that's terrible. 

Pants. Yes, I got one in a show bag when I was about. 

That's terrible. 

12. 

Yes, yes. Well, the Livestrong bands, obvious. The, you know, raised a conversation about cancer, normalised a conversation about cancer, whereas bands they didn't normalise anything really, especially when they were being worn by children. That's very strange. OK, so let's continue with the sports theme. We go to the 25th of July and we wanna talk about the Tour de France. 

Yes. Cause that ended right the 91st tour of France. Officially ends on the 25th of July, one at the time at the time by Lance Armstrong. We'll get we'll circle back to Lance in a tick, but let's let's focus on the race for the moment. So it started on the 3rd of July, the long race. 

At the. Yes, at the common. 

OK. 

Yep, it's a lot. 

Cycling. It's a lot of bike riding. Yeah, yeah. 

Your **** would be so sore. That's how many weeks is that? That's three weeks of riding a bike. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. For me, that would be because, you know, I love cycling. I I really. I haven't done a lot of it lately, cause it's been, it's been diabolically cold. So I'd need to recondition my sit bones, cause your sit bones get very, very sore cycling, which is why you need to wear like padded Nicks and things like that. And there's a little bit of friction. 

Geez. 

Umm. 

Have you done 3 weeks worth? 

On the seat as well, especially when you're going up hills and stuff. And I'm not one of those people who tends to. Well, I exfoliate, but I don't wax or anything. I don't shave my legs like a lot of cyclists do. So so. So I get brown. I'm quite prone to the odd saddle sore or the ingrown hair. And let me tell you, that is no fun at all. There's no fun at all. It's like you got to sit down and even the softest of cushions and you've got a golf ball. 

Ohh OK. Ingrown hairs. Not a good time. 

On your ****, it really hurts. So I could not fathom 3 weeks honestly. 

Three weeks, 3 weeks approximately, nearly 3 1/2 thousand kilometres. 

Yeah, like hundreds of K. Yes, a day 3000. OK. Yeah. No thanks. 

Half thousands, 20 stages and it started in Belgium and ends in France. 

Hmm. 

Yes, but the scenery would have been nice. I think. So do you understand what all the jerseys and stuff mean? 

No, the yellow is something to do with winning, but I don't. There's lots of different ones, isn't. There I don't get it. 

Yeah. So the yellow jersey, otherwise known as Melo Jean. 

Hmm, I think Marlow's Jersey Jean is yellow. 

I think I don't know. I don't. I don't know if that's a Jean is yellow in France that's worn by the overall race leader. 

Yeah, I think so. And but different people wear it. So if you're leading at particular stages. 

Well, yes, you have to have the lowest cumulative time across stages. 

But what confuses me is you could be wearing the yellow. For a long time during the race, but it doesn't necessarily mean just because you've worn it the most through the race, and it smells like your bio doesn't mean that you're necessarily the overall winner because it's like a cumulative thing. It's very confusing. 

Yeah. Well, yeah. So then there's the the green jersey, which is the. Yeah. Yeah. There I'm trying to put the. 

Veer, veer. I don't know. Our dogs. French. Perhaps we should ask her. 

The extent, well, she might start listening to me if I start speaking French or the extent of my French is like. The table is LA tabla and the telephone is la telefon and then a swimming pool is is pissin. Yeah, which is. I mean I of course so. So the green jersey is worn by the leader of the points classification, right? So points points are awarded. 

Now. 

That was nice. 

Oh, sexy stop. Ohh please too much. 

Yes. 

No, I don't. 

Based on your finishing position in each state. And intermediate sprints within the stages so that jersey usually goes to the best sprinter in the race, the green jersey. 

So you can have more points but still not win. 

Yes, that's right. 

This this doesn't make sense. 

Well, I think I I'm a I'm not a cycling aficionado, I'm just a recreational cyclist. You know, just me and. My saddle sauce. 

What about the spotty 1? 

Well, that's the saddle sauce. No, that's the rider with the most saddles. No, that's the polka dot jersey, which is the melon airfoil Rouge. 

The saddle sole jersey. Oh. Lovely. 

Yeah, I think that's how you pronounce it. I could be wrong. Warned, but this it I tell you what, if if this ends up going over to France, we're just gonna get complaints for you. Stupid deaf. You cannot speak French. It's worn by the leader of the mountains classification. So points are awarded to riders. 

What are that? What does this body guy do? 

Oh. 

We reached the summit of categorised climbs first and the number of points varies depending on the difficulty of the climb. 

Ohh God, I'm just having RPM flashbacks. 

Right. So so the best climber in the race? Yeah, I've like. So I've got one of those. 

Add a little load. Remember that lighting up again that made us put the load on as if we were climbing a big hill. No, I just pretend to turn mine and never actually turn it. 

Yeah. And I've I've got one of those. Right. I've got. Yeah. And so because this is trended a lot these days and it was especially popular during COVID as those stationary bike trainers where you clip your bike in, yes. And they're so smart nowadays that they can actually replicate Hill. 

Hmm. 

Climb so they know when you're cheating and you're not actually adding a little load. 

They are the most torturous devices. Like they're so much harder than riding on the road. They are just the most torturous devices. 

However. 

And and so you could perfect your hill climbs in the comfort of your own. 

So you could get a polka dot jersey. 

Home these days. Yeah, all of these jerseys, right? Ohh, there's the white one as well. Sorry, the white one, which is worn by the best young rider. So they're just kind of singling you out. That's the. That's the matter, blonde. Which means white is awarded to the right age 25 or younger with the lowest cumulative time in the general classifications. 

No. 

Best performing young rider in the. 

Price. 

OK, so they all add a massive layer of competition within the Tour de France and I would say complexity as. 

That's the jerseys. Well, well, I guess you need something to keep you going, because if Lance is out in front and you're like, oh, there he goes again. No, I just stop. I just don't. Why, why bother? So, you know, you gotta keep everyone else going with. 

Yeah. 

Honestly. Well, I need to ohh cause I'm under 25 and I might be able to. 

The jerseys. Might get the. 

Mellow. Bloom. Yeah, but I I think, look, if you actually sat down and watched the Tour de France and and you got into it, I'm sure it would become infinitely clearer to you. You it would be a lot easier to understand. 

Wow, excellent. 

So. 

But you explained it so well. 

I I did a fabulous job. It it it motivates writers to excel in different aspects of the race. So it's like, hey, I I know I'm not gonna win because you know, Lance those Armstrong is doped up to the eyeballs on his own blood and steroids. 

*** ****, I can climb a monster. 

But I reckon I could probably get myself a polka dot jersey, at least one of the days out of the 20 in the 3000 kilometres. That's something to aspire for. You know? That's that I'd ride through the pain of saddle sores. That little polka dot jersey the the but the the yellow jersey is actually awarded at the end of each stage, every day to the rider with the lowest cumulative time up to that point in the race. So that means that Josie. 

What's that? 

Changed his hands multiple times. Throughout. 

The race, so that's gross. Do they wash it in? 

And then and then. Yeah. Well, it's. 

Between changing hands. 

I'd like to hope so, because it's usually polyester and that stuff does not breathe, doesn't breathe, you know? Yeah. And I mean, I don't know the. 

Yeah, yeah, I. 

They're all they. They're a strange breed. Like they they like pain cycling is is a really wonderful pastime and it's great for getting out and, you know, being out in, in, in the wild, in the world and and enjoying the scenery as you're cruising around. It's not like driving where you kind of gotta focus on the road. You can't take a look around and breathe in the fresh air and it'd be out in the thing. But like this stuff is just next level torture. Like there's painful. It's a painful past time and it takes a lot of mental toughness. To ride through that and become the athletes that these guys are, especially when you look at them going through the mountains and stuff, you see the psychological barrier of having to push through to go up a. 

Hill, after you've already been riding. For a few weeks. 

Yeah, and with saddle sores, it's pretty intense. I mean, I mean, you know, maybe they're maybe. 

Hmm. 

And a stinky yellow jersey. It just sounds like the worst. 

It's like a dedicated. Sir, on the tame that kind of gives them. A little bit of a crack back and sat. 

You'd want to. But you'd want to exfoliate as well, because if you're waxing in that, that increases the chances of ingrown hair. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, it's it's only only in this podcast, folks, would you hear a conversation about the Tour de France and ingrown hairs? So, OK, so we're talking about the yellow jersey lowest cumulative thing. French writer Thomas Vockler captured the hearts of all the fans. 

Oh bash. 

Very. 

To me away. 

In the Tour de France that year, by holding the yellow jersey. For 10 days, because he was just so tenacious and determined and he pushed through that psychological barrier. 

That's a wedge in a bit. See, I think. He should have won for that, I think. 

Yeah, yeah. And then there was another guy called Richard. Veronica who won his 7th poketo. Ohh, it's veronique. Veronique. Wow. Veronique would be like Veronica. And this is VIRENQE. So I'm saying veranke. 

I think it's Veronique. I don't know. This looks like to me. OK, what did what did Richard wins? 

7th Polka dot jersey worn by the leader of the mountains. Classifications. Yeah. Set a record for the most victories in the mountains, like climbing mountains. 

Very good at. We had an Aussie though, didn't we? There was a big Aussie moment in this one. 

Yes, we did. We did that year. It was a big deal. Yeah, as Australia's own owl, Robbie McEwan won the green jersey. 

I remember. Ours, yes. What's the grain jersey again? 

Leader of the points classification yeah. 

All round, good guys, the green jersey. 

Uh-huh. That's right, all around, good guy. But if we move over. To all round bad guy. Yeah, we, yeah. 

The overall winner at the time no longer the winner. If you go and have a look at the record, he's been cancelled. He's been erased, he's been removed. He's not there anymore. But at the time, 2004 winner Lance Armstrong, his sixth consecutive victory setting a new record. 

He's been struck from the records, hasn't he? Yeah. OK. Just very quickly, so. Who is the winner now? No, no one. 

One, they don't give it to the person who came second. There's no winner. If you Google winner of 2004 Tour de France, the answer is no one. 

Is that right? 

They've just been struck from the records. 

No one? Well, I guess. 

You know, I mean, all of this stuff came to light like so many years past that like, wow, that's a bit much. 

But why wouldn't you give it to the person that came second? You know, like if the gold medal winner gets disqualified, doesn't the silver winner get the gold? 

I guess, yeah. 

Isn't that what happens? 

Yeah, maybe they have, like, a ceremony, like in a secret. Like, OK, I don't know. What, what? What would imagine that like all of a sudden they find out that the person that's won the gold medal. I guess if they test them straight after like it's. But this is this has been going on for years with Lance and and the. Atmosphere in this Tour de France and with this victory was very different to a lot of the other ones because, you know, he used to be thought of as this family man devoted to his wife and kids. He he beat this terrible disease, but now he's got this really high profile. He's done the deal with Nike. The Livestrong movement is growing and he's. I think he was. Was he dating Sheryl? Crow at the time. 

Yeah, because he had a pretty he had a pretty messy separation from his wife. And then, yes, Sheryl Crow was his misses at this point in time. So he kind of lost that. 

Yeah. 

Nice Family Guy image and. 

Yeah. But I think a lot of the riders in the actual Tour de France and in that community already knew who they were dealing with. It was just the rest of the world that kind of hadn't had their eyes opened to the sort of dude that he was. 

And well, there had been rumours. Whirling for some time, umm, and they started growing around this time, so much so that he was forced to make quite a few denials. 

He was he actually. 

Over the years. 

Had to deny it while umm. Oath. 

I've said it for seven years. I've said it for longer than seven years. I have never. If you consider my situation, a guy who comes back from arguably a, you know, a death sentence, why would I then enter into a sport and dope myself up and risk my life again? That's crazy. I would never do that. That that's no no way. As far as I'm concerned, this is really going to be the end of the story. This is sort of my last public appearance on it and. There's nothing else I can do. 

I've never taken performance against some drugs. Look, how could? That have happened. That was my point. You're not. It's not. 

Just simply, you don't recall just. 

How many times have this? Said just trying to make sure. 

At. 

Your testimony is clear. 

If it can't be any clearer than I've never taken drugs, then incidents like that could never have happened. How clear is that? 

Could you respond specifically to Floyd's plan that you and Johan taught him how? 

To do other than saying it's not true. We have nothing to say. We have nothing. To hide, he said. 

He has nothing. He's got no proof. It's. It's his word versus our. 

This. 

Very confident in the denials, isn't he? He's very convincing and you'd feel. 

Really. Is he really is? 

A little bit. Scared to then? Maybe challenge that further because he's very confident and convincing. 

Aggressive. He's very he aggressively denies those claims. One of those was actually in court like he was in front of some. Yeah. Yes, yes. 

Yes, borderline aggressive. I think so he didn't. So he's lied under oath. Let's do a bit of a Lance timeline, shall we? So 1999 was his first Tour de France with yes. And it was tainted by a positive. 

Sure. 

Oh, I don't even know how to. Say that word, well, you said that a bit too fast. Was that for your saddle sauce? 

Corticosteroids I do. I do corticosteroids because I've actually used that particular band substance when I've been cycling as well because it's a prescription for saddle sore screen, so it's well, he's probably, I'll tell you what he must have put a lot on. 

And say this. 

Is why you ruled out of the two and well. 

It's it's 2024. 

So. 

Well, no. This is an interesting one. So he he tested positives to steroid. It's and he said the reason was a prescription for saddle sour cream. It's. But it came out later that he then went and got a prescription for that saddle sauce cream after the fact after he tested positive and then used that as his defence. So that was a lie. 

Would it be like hydrocortisone? Really. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Because I was gonna say you would have to. 

Wasn't settled through frame. 

He's like load of it to have it be absorbed into his blood or his urine or however they test it. I don't know how they test big, sad or sore. Yeah. Must have been open and seeping anyway. 

Big sore with an ingrown hairs. 5 ingrown hairs. 2001 allegations surfaced during the Tour de Suits. 

Yes. 

Suits. Suits. Yeah. It's it's from the from the Swiss, meaning Switzerland. 

But he denies any wrongdoing. 

Yeah, I didn't do anything wrong. 

2003 so last year and T minus last year and. 

Just spent all that Swiss cheese I ate. It's causing my causing my paws to lots of like sebum to build up and maybe I got like some blocked pores and you I was once again cortico steroid cream that would have cleared that right up. 

Lovely. Lovely. 

Yes, yes, yes. 2003 so that was like last year in T -, 20 years journalist David Walsh begins investigating him after witnessing his bullying of Christophe Bassons, who is a well known anti doping advocates. David thinks hey. 

Yes. 

Hmm. 

This seems a little bit odd. Why? Why would someone who who is so strongly denying taking drugs and being so anti drug? Is bullying a well known anti doping advocate? 

Yeah. Pushing them around. Hmm. 

So we get to 2004 and French fans are holding up. Lance, go home signs at the Tour de France and he then accuses French reporters of attempting to break into his team's hotel rooms to try and find evidence of doping. 

Hmm. 

Hmm. 

And this all came about the the reason the French were probably pretty angry and vocal about it all was a few weeks before the Tour de France. There was a book released in French called LA Ohh. Yes, please. 

Yep. Can I do it? Can. I do it. LA Confidentiel les secrets de Lance Armstrong. 

Which was a groundbreaking expose expose delved into his alleged doping practises. 

Alleged. 

Doping practises, I'm sorry. Yes it did. And this is David. 

2001 I found out that he was working with Kelly Ferrari doping Dr Should that have not made a big difference, it should did it? No, Lance said. I believe Michelle's an honest man and a lot of the journalist said, well, that's OK then Lance believes he's honest. Well, they wrote Lance believes he's honest. What David Wells said is interesting, but not that relevant. So I come up with Em O'Reilly. I was and she says I was lances, masseuse. There was doping in the. And I put that in the book with Pierre Ballester and. People say you know. What Emma really is just one witness. Maybe a bitter ex ex employee. And then I go to Betsy Andreu. She heard him admit using doping. Ohh. She's a bitter wife of a teammate, and Lance had a way of diminishing all the people who spoke against him. And I suppose the bit that really frustrated me. With the readiness of so many to accept, Armstrong's totally. Possible explanations to accept the fact that he felt he could carry to assassinate anybody who spoke against him, and I found out depressing. It was like if you were a big guy, you could say whatever you like about other people and the journalists who should have been challenging. You didn't challenge you and were prepared to. Let you get away with it. 

And I think David Walsh is very, very brave because and and and and he as far as journalistic integrity goes, he's got it in space because. And I understand why people would be scared to speak out about him, like this guy at this stage 6 Tour de France. He's. 

Yeah. 

Through his belt, Nike is behind him $1,000,000 company lots and lots of sponsorship deals and dollars like Lance Armstrong. At the moment, he's not just Lance Armstrong, the dude that rides bikes. Hmm. He's a brand he is. He's a brand and a lot of companies have invested a lot of time and money into him as a brand. 

Yes. Yes, a lot of endorsements, a lot of sponsorships. Yep. 

So on this, yeah. So on the surface, there is obviously the wonderful amounts of money that have been raised for charity and the awareness around cancer and all of that stuff. And you can't take that away from him or maybe the people that are, I guess, were inspired by him for doing that. I don't wanna take that away. From them, but at the same time there is a commercial value attached to it and it's millions and millions and millions of dollars and it's a lot of investment. It's like, do you know how many sweatshop workers working for Nike would have had to churn out those silicon wristbands, you know, pouring the silicon in the miles and damping the the L, the IV, the E, the strong into that. 

In like 2 weeks I know. 

Yes, that's a lot of sweatshop work. That's sweaty, sweatshop work. They might need some cortico steroid cream as well, because you sweat that much. You're gonna get some sores, too. 

I mean, it's a lot of effort. 

But that's the thing, though. Anyone who dared challenge him, and I think I think this is what happened to David. He would then go and sue them for defamation and he'd he'd ruin people over it. So I think that's. But I think that's also why people weren't not only was he. 

Yeah, because he had the clout and the money to do it. 

Hmm. 

Kind of aggressive and a bit of a a bully in terms. Of the way that. He would come up against you if you asked questions. He would sue. He could effectively ruin your career. He could ruin your life. He could be left with no money. So you can see why a lot of people didn't speak up against him. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. Well, David Walsh did, and thank goodness he did. And he was lucky because he did get some really big witnesses, including Emma O'Reilly, which was his former. Masseuse. And I mean she. This is the she probably had to touchy saddle sores. So she's probably well and truly happy to give up any information on him after that. 

He said that he once asked her to dispose of used syringes, implying that they were for performance enhancing drugs. She detailed trips to collect and deliver what she believed were doping products. And she also stated that her going back to the saddle sore thing that he didn't have saddle sores and it was a backdated prescription for cortisone to cover up the positive test. 

Yes, these are all well, I don't know if it's alleged. It's probably proven now. Yeah, that's what she said. MMM. 

Well, they were her statements. They were her statements in the book. So the book was based on interviews. That's where they got their information. There was also the close association, which David mentioned there with Doctor Ferrari, who was an Italian sports doctor, well known for expertise and performance enhancing drugs. The book also questioned his remarkable performances post cancer suggesting. 

Just not with that doctor Ferrari, though. Not only was Doctor Ferrari known for his expertise in performance enhancing drugs, but was also at the time under investigation for supplying doping products to scientists. Scientists here go and get high. Scientists, cyclists, cyclists. 

So. 

Hoping product of Cyclers, hmm. 

Officials. Yeah. Question here is a remarkable performances post cancers suggesting that his recovery and dominance in in cycling were aided by performance. And drugs and also spoke about that aggressive behaviour towards anyone who was against doping, including Christophe Bassons, and it also suggested that he used significant resources to intimidate and legally challenge those who did, accuse him of doping, creating a culture of silence and fear. 

Hmm. 

Around him. 

Hmm. And I think this book. Or this this piece by David Walsh. LA Confidential played this like played a huge role in challenging the guy. This was. Mm-hmm. This is, I think, the beginning of the end for Armstrong. Really. 

I think the mood around him did really change in the 2004 Tour de France. 

Yes, but his thing was on message deny, deny, deny the entire time and. 

And I guess the whole LIVESTRONG campaign would have worked in his favour as well, because that started in the lead up to the two at the front, all of a sudden they've sold all of these bracelets, everyone's wearing the Lance bracelet. We're all raising money for a great. Cause how could you possibly accuse him of something so terrible? This amazing guy who's raising all this money? So he probably would have been stoked at that deal and that partnership at that time, knowing that that book was coming out. 

Yes, but at the time too, I think while in the cycling community there's probably a lot of doubt there and in the journalistic community and and the the sporting professional community, there's doubt, right? The public face, the public side are like. 

Hmm. 

On board their team Lance all the way and he he's he's fuelling that as well. He goes to a press conference and he's like we can't tolerate it anymore. We're sick and tired of people alleging this stuff about us. We'll do everything we can to fight them. It's very unfortunate. It's a few journalists who take this on as a personal mission against us. Again. Enough is enough. That's pretty much what he said. 

He took them to court. He also asked the French courts for an emergency ruling to insert a denial into the book. He was going all at it. So then we get to 2005 continuing the Lance timeline here, he wins his 7th Tour de France. Yawn. The accusations are growing. His former teammate Frankie Andrew and his wife Betsy testify that he admitted to drug use in 1996. 

Yeah, we'll talk about that next year, sure. 

2006 he reaches settlements in various defamation lawsuits but and continues to face his scepticism. 

Well, I think the publics, the publics, get the. Prism by 2006, it's pretty right. 

Yeah, this doesn't seem right. 

It's like cause I mean everyone's like, how did that dude do that? How did he win seven in a row, you know? And I think that it's a beautiful fairy story that he's conquered cancer and he's just he's pushed through some kind of threshold that other mere mortals can't. And that's how he's dominated and been able to win because it's all. 

Hmm. 

Up there in his mind. And he's fine tuned his body and all of that stuff with a few augmentations from various performance enhancing drugs, unfortunately. 

2010 to 2012, we have the federal and new SATA investigations. Same year, Floyd Landis, a former teammate, publicly confesses to doping and implicates Armstrong in his confession. 

Yes. And then there's a probe. There's a probe in 2011 with Jeff, Jeff Novitsky, the the federal investigator. And the case is closed, actually without charges in February 12th. So he's he's dodged it again. 

This is 2012. 

Now we're talking about, so this is like a significant amount of time. This is 8 years after. 

Hmm. 

The 2004 Tour de France. 

Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't until June 2012 that he started charges Armstrong with doping offences. He chooses not to contest the charges, resulting in a lifetime ban and the stripping. Of his title. 

Isn't that weird? Like after fighting for so long, it's just like, yeah. Ohh, I'm done alright. Alright, you got me. You got me. So then so then we go get to January 2013 and there's the big into. 

Yeah. *******. Yeah. You and him meddling for this. 

View with Oprah Winfrey. 

Let's start with the questions that people around the world have been waiting for you to answer. And for now, I'd just like a yes or no. Did you ever take banned substances to enhance your cycling performance? Yes or no? Was one of those banned substances EPO? Did you ever blood dope or use blood transfusions to enhance your cycling performance? Did you ever use any other banned substances like testosterone, cortisone or human growth hormone? 

Yes. 

Yes or no. In all seven of your Tour de France victories. Did you ever take banned substances or blood dope? In your opinion, was it humanly possible to win the Tour de France without doping seven times in a row? 

Not in my opinion. 

I'm really glad Oprah didn't do. Never have I ever for that interview. But I also think that was very clever and very strategic that she said to him yes or no, because he's always been one to kind of come in and dominate and be quite aggressive. And I reckon if she just had the open ended questions, he would have come in with all of these. Excuses and blame and you know, twisting it all around. So I think that was a really smart way to do it. Well done, Oprah. 

Well, that's the only thing anyone wanted to really hear him say. 

Yeah, we all turned off after them. Now I knew it. We knew it. 

We didn't want to hear any excuses. Anyway, but there I I I feel bad for the journalists who, especially David Walsh, who sacrificed so much to try and preserve and to preserve the and also the other cyclists. I mean, I don't know. I don't know. I know that it's it's a pretty right thing in the community of cycling and cycling's kind of been tainted by that. 

It's so it's so hard, yes. 

For a long time, but it's compromised the integrity of the Tour de France. It's caused so much emotional and and probably physical stress to a lot of the journalists that were actually trying to get to the truth and the people that were around him that he probably. 

Hmm. 

Weed, you know. 

And the people that he sued. 

Yeah, like, I mean, it doesn't stress cause cancer, you know, like, can it? I don't know anyway. So lots of lawsuits from there on in back at him instead of him going after people. They all came after him. And there was a big settlement even with the US government, all the sponsors, I think he played paid like $5 million. To settle claims just with the US government. And then you get to 2020 and there was a documentary about his career and the doping scandal on ESPN. 

Can we can we go back to the LIVESTRONG bands for a moment too? So when all this happens in 2013, so a few peoples live strongs haven't broken by 2013, they're still wearing the Livestrong. So they've obviously taken it off when they've showered and. 

Ohh yeah yeah. Hmm. 

Swim in the. Pool. They've looked, they've looked after their silicon response. So those people are sitting there watching Oprahs never have I ever and gone. 

Yeah. Yeah, they're taking care of this. We can. 

Wow. Umm, so on hearing the news, many people crossed out the V on the live strong band, making it life strong. 

I like it lie strong, very good. 

Or. 

Put a W over the St in strong, making it live wrong live wrong. 

Hmm. 

Live wrong? Umm. I like it and I see I maintain. Yellow is a coward's colour. Wow, I never thought I would have a conversation that went for that long about Lance Armstrong. 

No me either. Interesting though interesting stuff. 

Hmm. 

Yeah. So we've well, we've kind of bugged ourselves all the way up until 2020 now because we've talked about everything, so. 

We've used all our Lance content. 

We'll glance over it as various historical moments in the career of that man. Anyway, we're talking about music. We're talking about music now, hmm? 

This let's move on to the US charts. The top five sounded like this. 

But I don't want if it ain't you. 

Don't just pull up a pants. Do the rock away. Lean back, lean back, lean back. Come on. 

Too many days, so many hours. I'm still burning. 

You know, let it go. 

Working that back, don't know how to slow motion, slow motion, slow. 

I said all I can say. 

That's a good song for Lance Armstrong, confessed my confessions. Guess what? And I said I had turtle sauce and I took some corticosteroids. I was really blood doping. 

These are. 

These are my confessions. 

That would be a very long. 

Song you. 

Just answer yes or no, Lynn. Sorry. We're still going on Lance. Anyway. What was that in the top five? You give us a round up of that. 

Alright, if I ain't got you, Alicia Keys. Feet. Usher in the number 5. We have a new entry. Lean back. But because we had so much Lance content, we need to go to a break. So we'll save that burn by. 

Yes. 

Masha, no, we don't actually put it in next week. 

'S show so. 

Yeah, I know, because I know go to a break. We don't. We don't have any sponsors. Ohh we'll be back after these important messages. Ohh, hang on. Yeah. 

I was just trying to. 

Yes, you know, like you know like when. They're on the morning. But you know, on the morning TV show when they've gotta, like, cut the interview short or they've gotta drop an infomercial segment cause they've gone over and something else, we gotta go to a break that I was just trying to cover up for the fact that I cocked up. We'll talk about leading back to next week. 

Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

We don't, we don't have any sponsors. Do you know what, though? I'm gonna put a free plug in this. 

Week's saddle saw cream. My saddle sauce. 

C -, 20 is no. It's got nothing to. 

Do with it's sponsored. 

I've gotta say it's brought to you by Smoke Masters BBQ. But ohh. He wants to be associated with seeping saddle sauce somehow. 

No. 

That's good BBQ. 

When you need to risk it for the brisket smoke masters BBQ anyway? Yes, indeed. Anyway. OK. So what were you up to? Lean back. Lean back. Which we went to. We're gonna talk about that next week. We had burn. 

That. 

Pork. 

That pulled pork last week. Devon, Devon. Lean back, we'll. It. 

So just. 

Hold your horses burned by usher like the saddles. Slow motion in at #2 and then confessions and at #1 on the Australian charts is still Paulini with Angel eyes. 

Yeah. Right, yeah. 

Say. 

It was Jeff Healey song, Jeff Healey estate or even Jeff Healey himself. I'm not sure if he's still alive in 2000. We're getting kicked back from that, though I'm sure. 

Breakfast. 

Produced by Audius, I did promise to come back with some audius facts and I didn't do that either. No, let's just supporters, chief, some Lance. 

Yes. Didn't you? Wow, these are your confessions. Focused on there's a lot. There's a lot that happens. Yeah, like life and life happens in between the podcast. 

There was a lot of lead stuff. 

As well. So if ever we do say at the end of one episode that something is gonna be in the next episode. Meanwhile, it's absolutely no guarantee that that's gonna happen. This is. 

Thank you. Thanks for giving me. 

It probably was. 

Lean back. Well, I've. I've already prepped that one. There's a there's some lean back into next week. 

OK, good. Alright. Alright. Well, let's lean into what was number one in the UK. Just play it. 

Let. 

Lindsey more fish. In the sea, try your eyes. I know you want to make us see how much this thing hurts. 

There's one thing that I do, even though I don't necessarily subscribe to or like a lot of the music that comes through the UK charts, I don't mind that one. It's so diverse, like we're disco in there like a week ago. 

This. 

Yeah, yeah, that was that. The the streets. Yes, right. And dry your eyes, mate. 

We'll dry your eyes. 

In Australia they do another version that would be hard enough. Drink yourself a big fat cup of concrete. 

Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the streets. That's an English rapper and producer Mike Skinner and had a side music project called the Streets. And the song describes the protagonist trying to cope with his girlfriend breaking up with. 

Yeah. 

Him. 

I just. I just like I just like the style of it. I like that they really lean into their accents for it. 

How insane music. 

Hmm. 

And it does have that conversational kind of vibe to it. 

I think that the album that that was on, it's just it's a nice album just to to pop on on a Sunday arvo when you're sitting in the lounge and the sun's coming through the window and you're just having a chill. It's nice, yeah. 

Yeah. 

I I don't like the street. I don't mind the streets. I like the storytelling. Hmm. 

That's nice. Yes, that's actually their most successful single reaching #1. As we know in the UK and that was only six days after it was released. It also went straight to number one in Ireland. 

Yeah. 

For three weeks and here in Australia it was number 19 on Triple J's Hottest 100 of 2000. 

And four. Yeah. Hmm. 

Ohh there you go. There you go. Number 87 on the 150 best tracks of the past 15 years, according to NME, who are who did that in 2000 and. 

11:00 well, those letters meant to be like. 

Yeah. 

Enemy. 

Yeah, I think it's a, it's a, it's a play on words, cause it's isn't it, new music express, yeah. 

Yeah. New Music Express I used to read it to get the gossip for the gossip break when I used to do the. 

Hot 30 but I think it is a bit of a play on it. 

But are they trying to say cause I? Only just got that enemy. 

Well, I remember who's the Rolling Stone journalist who used to be like the musicians used to refer to the journalists as as the enemy. Yeah. What was the name of that Rolling Stone journalist? I think it was. 

Ah. The. 

Cameron Crowe, who who, who directed and wrote almost famous when and he was like he was reporting as a teenage rider for Rolling Stone, and I think he was during one of his interactions was referred to as as the enemy by a particular band that he was covering, I think. We covered a whole bunch of rock bands on tour, so I'm not sure exactly which one, but there you go, NME. Cameron Crowe, did you learn something today? Were you today years old? 

Additives. 

Well, I feel like I've thought about it at some other stage, but I've only just vocalised it now, yeah. 

Who? 

Excellent. This this T -, 20 factoid brought to you by Smoke Masters BBQ where you can risk it. For the brisket. Over to the entertainment portion of the proceedings, we'll start with the Cinema Cinema number one at the US box office, Matt Damon with The Bourne supremacy. 

Yes. 

He warned them. 

You're gonna go tell him that Jason Bourne is dead. You understand? I swear to God, if I even feel somebody behind me, there is no measure to how fast and how hard I will bring this fight. To your doorstep. 

We got a guy. 

Coming across the street, Warren is a guy with pieces. 

To a jigsaw puzzle. Take him down. 

They should have listened. 

I told you people to leave us alone. 

Points on his way to Moscow right now. 

We just got another idea outside of. 

Munich, Jason Bourne just popped up in the grid in Naples. 

What is he actually doing? 

He's doing exactly what he said he'd. 

Do. 

Is coming for us. 

On July 23rd. 

He can play these. 

Games forever? Yeah, he's not in front of you. You can't see. 

It. Forget it. He's gone. Jason, I don't want. 

You to do this. 

We don't have a. 

Choice, the most dangerous place to be Matt Damon. He's in his path. 

This is Jason Bourne, right next to you. 

Trace it come. On it. 

The Bourne supremacy. 

Ohh, they were so good. Those Bourne movies. 

Is that the one that we watched recently when we were doing that? Watchman. Yeah. I think you made. 

I think that's the best one. That was the best. 1. 

Me. Watch it for the Watchmen stuff. 

Bourne identity was great, and then the Bourne supremacy was just next level. Awesome, really good. I believe so, yes. 

So is that the? That's the second one? And is that the one where there was a TV playing in the background and it was an Australian newsreader? Yeah, I can't remember who it was. It was like. 

I think it was. 

That's right. I'm just not sure which one it was. 

Maybe it was today tonight. 

It wasn't. It wasn't dreamy eyes, Kenny Sutcliffe doing the sport. No, I think it was like. 

No. Was it today? Tonight is it? Naomi Robson? No, it was a guy. It was a guy. 

Maybe maybe it was. Wasn't Naomi Robson. No, she was too busy swearing at the rest of the crew there. Yes, I am too. I'm team Naomi all the way but the yes. 

Wasn't it? Now that was fair enough. I'm on her. Side for. Max 100%. Yeah, no, I was a guy. 

Occasionally you do get this. Mark Ferguson. I think it was fergo could have been fergo. He's still going on strong fergo, really. 

Fergo might have been fergo. I think it was fergo. Yes, he's in contract negotiations I believe. So I think the Virgo put Bourne supremacy on your resume. 

He's like fergo is like the J. Jason, born of Australian News reading I think yeah, he really is. 

News. Yeah. Yeah. He was kind of like they they. I remember when they first hired him cause it was like, you know, he's like that nice Family Guy coming into your home in in the evenings and. Yeah. 

No ferger, no, no story. Too tough. Yeah, he's great, but the Bourne supremacy. 

For four games. 

What was also good as as fergo. 

Also good, all so good fergo definitely just pushed it to the next level. I think that's what made it better than. Yeah, exactly so it's. 

He made it. Yes, I know. If he wasn't in, it probably wouldn't like this. 

Much. 

Continues the story of Jason Bourne and isn't the Jason Bourne thing trending at the moment? At the moment, you know that anyone does any kind of really unco martial arts and then they they splice us together with, you know who that was. That was Jason Bourne, do they? Yeah. It's hilarious. It's on the. Yeah. I'm too busy watching it to actually upload any content to it these days anyway. 

Yes. Fatburger is it? Why? 

Is it? 

Hey, what is this on the TikTok? I haven't seen this summer on. The TikTok. 

Yeah. So Jason Bourne follows his story, former CIA assassin. We all know the deal suffering from psychogenic amnesia. He's portrayed by Matt Damon, who I think was the best Jason Bourne, if I'm being. 

Honest. Have there been others? Yes. 

Jeremy Renner stepped into his shoes and played Jason Bourne after that. Yeah, focuses on his attempt to learn more about who he is and where he came from. And you know, then gets caught up in the big CIA conspiracy operation Treadstone. Brian Cox is in there. Julia Stiles reprising the roses ward. Abbott and Nikki Parsons. 

No. 

Fur goes in there. 

Fur goes in there. Joan Allen, as the deputy director and Task Force chief Pamela Landy, Jason's living in India when he's framed by a Russian agent. Cruel for the theft of millions of dollars from the CIA, CIA like where our millions of dollars and Russian agent killers. Jason Bourne has it, and he's like what? I don't know anything. I've got amnesia, and then they're all trying to assassinate him. And then he runs off with his girlfriend Marie, and then they're trying to shoot him. But they kill his girlfriend, and then he just loses his and then just tries to. 

Hmm. 

Kill everyone. It was good. Ohh geez, it was good. It's like kicked everyone. 

Yeah, I didn't mind. It. 

And us and left took numbers and and the numbers speak for themselves to 82%. Critics who are on Rotten Tomatoes, 90% audience score. That's how good it. 

Was so probably the best series. 

Hmm. 

Yeah. And we were still waiting for it to come out in Australia and as a consequence, our system is number one in Australia. Yeah, we're watching Will Smith try and pin murder on robots with I, robot, you know, keep that robots name out your mouth. 

Labour maybe? 

Anyway, then there was. There's another movie that I just has a a a soft spot, special place, a special place in our heart. And I don't know that it's aged all that well and I haven't seen it for 20 years. 

My. Yeah. I think we have to. Yeah. I think it's one that we're gonna have to. Go back and watch. 

I haven't seen it for 20 years and I did love it dearly. I loved it dearly. At the time we are talking about this particular movie. 

And see if we still feel the same it. Might ruin it. 

Harold never got too far with the ladies. 

The only girls who are interested in me are girls. I have no interest in. Kumar never got much respect. The name is that anyhow. Kumar was of the five O's or two U's. But tonight the next. Hours. I expect both of. 

Us to be blitzed. 

Out of our schools. 

They're going on. 

A trip? Get up. We're going to White Castle. We're. 

Starving, they'll never remember. 

Then. 

I forgot my cell. 

Phone you want to run back and get it. 

No, we've gone too far. 

This summer, it's thinking about those tiny little White Castle burgers. This makes me want to burn this mother down. They're going to discover what they're made of. 

If you could help me with this. 

No, those aren't real. Yes, they are. They're up against. 

Thank you. Come again. 

And who they're dealing with? Nice. 

Are you Neil Patrick Harris? Yep. 

So you just been driving around looking for white? 

Caps lap. 

Just forget White Castle. Let's go get some strippers. 

We're talking about Harold and Kumar go to White Castle, which in some international markets was called Harold and Kumar get the munchies just doesn't have the same ring and White Castle. I mean White Castle. For those of you who are unfamiliar with White Castle, these tiny little burgers, it's like a burger franchise. 

9. 

Little sliders, yeah. 

Little little burger sliders. We went there in New York. Yes. And we've been sort of having this culinary journey all around the United States at our honeymoon. And then I realised I was like, I need to find a White Castle and it was a couple of blocks. 

Yes. 

From. Our hotel, so we went to White Castle one day when we were morbidly hungover. 

Yes. 

And. 

They didn't. They did something weird with the meat. They broiled it, didn't they? Yeah. 

Yeah. They boil the boil, the things which is similar to grilling, but it's kind of like that you cover them up and they Stew in their own juices a bit. 

I didn't hate it, but I. Think cause we'd had in and out burger. 

And Shake Shack and all of these other wonderful burgers. 

It was, yeah, it didn't live up to the expectations as Harold and Kumar had set for us. 

Yeah, it's just kind of like. No, no. And so and I think it was pure. Really. The motivation to go there was because of this film. It's. 

Hmm. So so Harold Lee is an investment banker. Yeah. And I think he's bullied into doing his colleagues work. They all go away for the weekend, and they make him stay back and do the work. And Kumar went for his medical school interview, and he's highly qualified. But I think he ruined his chance on purpose because he didn't want to go and was in love with his neighbour. 

Yes. Yes. So they're like, you know. And they're rampaging potheads. OK, so you know what's interesting is like international students, right? This is what reminds me like, there's always this stigma attached. And this is what I liked about this film, because there's the stereotypical characters and like Asian characters and Indian characters never really get leading roles. And here we have is this wonderful film. Where the Asian and the Indian guy are the lead characters and they're great and they're really good. And from experience, I don't know if you've ever walked into a group house with international. Students, they are all smoking pot, all of them. They are high as kites. They come over here and they get into their group houses and they assimilate and they form. 

Really. 

Ghettos. I sound. 

Like Pauline Hanson, they don't do that. They don't do that at all. You know what they do? They go and find a weed dealer and then when they're not studying and working really hard. They're pulling cones. And watching TV, much like Harold and Kumar. And then they go on to careers like you know what it was he, an investment banker. Is that what? 

He was medical one was wasn't 1A medical student. 

Medical student was the one still a student the other. One was anyway, yeah. 

Medical school interview, yes. 

So the story? Yes, he's an investment banker. 

And so they, yes, they were stoned. And they're watching the TV and a White Castle ads comes on. They've got the munchies. So they decide to go there they go there. And then that one's closed down. So then they have to go to another one. And so it's just this big adventure of getting to White Castle. They bump into Doogie Howser, MD, along the way. He wants to go to the strippers and all these crazy things. 

Let's go to White Castle. Hmm. 

Happen and. 

Yes. Remember they get caught up with the Redneck freak show freak show and he's like, and he's like, I want you to service my wife. 

Yes. 

My favourite bit was when one of them needed to do a wee in the bushes and he they get out of the car and he goes and does does a wee in the bushes and then there's someone someone from somewhere else needs to also do a wee in the bushes and this is a really big Bush and they decide remember and the guy like we he's right next to him in the Bush and he's just. 

Yes, yes. 

Like. 

I don't even. I can't remember what he says, but something along the lines of you have the whole forest and you're standing right next to me. What are you doing? And I feel that way every time I park my car right down the end of the car park. So I don't have to weave into two other cars or whatever. And a car comes and parks right next to me. I feel like either Harold or Kumar doing away. 

Yeah. Yes, same deal. Yeah, I get it as a man. 

All the time I'm like. 

What are you? 

Doing as a man, there's nothing worse than being at a urinal, for example, and having another man come and stand right beside you. 

Yes. Well, same with parking. Cause I purposefully park with parks on either side because I have a lot of bags that I have to get out of either side of my car. I don't want anyone either side. 

Yeah, yeah, you don't want anyone. To scratch your car. 

So I can get my bags out. 

Yeah. Yeah. You park further away so you can walk a little bit, get your steps. 

Every time they and then they'll reverse park, not only just Park Park next to me, they'll reverse park, so they'll go backwards and forwards like 20 times. 

Up. 

And I can't get out my door and I just feel like Harold. And Kumar are doing away. 

I feel like Harold and Kumar have opened up a lot of feelings for you. 

They have. It's just reminded me of how annoyed that makes me. 

Yeah. 33 directors for this movie, Danny, Lena, John Hurwitz and and Hayden Schlossberg. And they when they developed the film, it was actually based on experiences that they had and people when they attended Randolph High School, they got licence and permission from White Castle in 2002 to make. 

Alright. 

After they consulted with Krispy Kreme and a couple of other places? Yeah, Nah, but White Castle said. Yeah, we'll do it. And they contributed the marketing campaign, releasing all these tier products at their restaurants like, Nah. 

So Christy Greene said no. 

I remember I. 

Think and it's a smart move because White Castle in the hierarchy of burger chains is not that high, are they? Don't get it as well, especially in Australia, specially in Australia. You can actually buy like Frozen, take home packs from White Castle where it's like I don't think you can get it in Australia. 

Hmm. 

They don't get a lot of coverage. 

Yeah, I haven't seen them featured in movies. 

Yeah. Can you? 

Here in Australia. 

And. Hmm. 

But *** **** it, if you could, I'd be down with that. So I I think it was a really smart move to just accept that. Yeah, like stoners eat our food. And this is a Stoner movie about our food. And more people will probably be exposed to and buy our food if we are associated with this particular film. And it was a, it was a winner. It was a great movie. 

Maybe you should get it, yeah. 

Yeah. 

How good was Doogie Howser, MD in it? Just quietly, he was amazing. 

Neil Patrick Harris stole the show and this was at a stage where he. Wasn't super. 

Well, he wasn't in How I Met, How I Met. Your mother came a few years later. 

No, and he hadn't done any of the Broadway musicals, and I don't even know if he'd come out at this stage. But but Neil Patch, this was this. 

Yeah, I'm not sure. He wasn't as big as he was. Later in the 2000s. 

I think, and I think this kind of reignited that guys career, God forbid, and it was just so much fun it for. I remember it being a very fun movie and now I'm inspired to go and watch it. 

Hmm. Yeah. 

Was. 

And now I'm also really hungry for some fairly petty hemp. Let's go to TV news. What's happening in the TV? 

Our very big news in TV this week, 20 years ago here in Australia, we had the winner of Big Brother 2004 announced, yeah. 

Yes, and and only in Australia could it be a bloke named Trevor. 

And it's time to announce the winner of Big Brother. 

Everyone. 

Now as we know, the winner of Big Brother is the winner of $1 million. 

Congratulations. Congratulations. 

Any final thoughts, guys? Any final words? Congratulations. Fair enough. OK. I'm opening the envelope. And the winner is. 

Pick it. Up. 

Pause the, pause, the pause. 

And the winner is. 

Trevor. 

Yeah. 

Another time. 

Listen to the crowd. Pop that cheering goes on for, like, at least 10 minutes. When that happens, I, the Big Brother audience is feral. I've been in the Big Brother audience for the finale of the first season of Big Bro. 

Yes. 

And I couldn't hear for two days after that, it was intense. 

French. 

I don't know why Gretel had to clear her throat, though, because she did. The pause. She did, the dramatic pause. She could have cleared her throat. Then she said it. 

Yes. 

Right before she. Said so, you said this was the second Big Brother. This would be the third because we had not Blair, Ben, and then Ben and then Reggie. 

Tis it the 1st. Yes. 

Reggie was 2. 

Reggie was the second one right. Sorry I skipped a season so you would have thought that they knew what they were getting into by this day. 

1003 So this is this is actually. The third one. 

Said. 

Well. 

I think they did. I think this is where we started to see them have these different kind of. 

They. 

Personas and they went in thinking that the winner would get 250,000, but this was the first year that they did a million as the prize money, so they didn't know that until they came out. 

Right. Hmm. 

And I think Bree, who came second, Bree Armour, Amur, she won. She won a Mitsubishi Outlander. 

Yes, aima. 

Ohh, that's alright. That's better than The Mirage. 

I don't know. Three months locked in a compound at Dreamworld and all you get is a car at the end of it. 

Trevor, do you remember Trevor? He immediately proposed to his girlfriend after winning. Well, if I was Trevor's girlfriend, I would have proposed to him after he. 

Yeah. 

No. 

Yeah, yeah, there this was this was this, the one that launched? I mean, Ryan Fitzgerald was, that isn't surprising. 

Won a million so. Frizzy, but now he's he was frizzy on the show, but now he's known as Fitzy, and he's on because he's on radio. 

Fitzy. Yeah. So he's a radio announcer. Chrissy Swann was on this one as well, I believe. Yeah. Or was she on the Reggie one? 

Was she? I think she was a Reggie one. She's a. 

She was a Reggie and I'm getting confused anyway. 

Reggie one that's all the same. They all look the same. 

They all end up driving black thunders or something afterwards and taking good radio jobs away from hard working radio people. 

Well, it's it's funny. Funny that you say that because Trevor Trevor's still married too, so he proposed and they're still together. Yeah. Trevor is actually on radio. He's on one of the hot tomato ones, I think gold. 

Yeah. 

Coast so I. 

Yeah. 

Think he used to do production? Maybe drive like thunders, but now he's on afternoons. 

Across well. 

Quick days from three. Trevor and Moira, Moira and Big Trev. 

Really. Well, I hope he's held on to some of that cash cause. 

Yes. 

He's gonna get **** all working on radio. 

They. 

It was also controversy around his winnings, too. At one point, the Ato considered it to be payment for time spent in the House, so that was his earnings. He earned a million for staying in the house and they therefore wanted to take like 30 or 30% or whatever it well. 

Well, yes, because they but the rubella. 

They're going to taxi. Gone up a couple of brackets. Yeah, it'd be like half you'd be half. 

It's been more than 30% cause it's a meal would be like, yeah. 

Be like 500K. 

But I think in the end they they I think they ruled that it was like winning the Lotto like prize prize money, yeah. 

Competition winnings like prize winnings? Well, they cause they do get their. 

Is a game of chance or game of skill, though game big game of skill. 

I don't know. I guess they do get their income supplemented while they're in the house. That house mate. But it's not a lot. It's not a lot. It's well, cause it, you know, they. 

They get like 30. Dollars a day or something? Yeah, it's not much. And then they all get fired from their jobs for being inappropriate. I completely forgot how inappropriate the conversations, not even on cut, just regular Big Brother. Just how inappropriate the conversations were in that show. 

Oh, Big Brother uncut. Yeah. Yeah, very, very quickly though. Ever one of the most forgettable Big Brother housemates of all time. If we're being honest, the entire time. 

I think Trevor was under the radar because I I thought I thought frizzy was great. I thought frizzy was gonna actually get it on with Bree. 

He's boring. Yes, yes. Well, that wasn't there. A stripper chick on there as well? That was a stripper. Yeah. Look, I don't know, and, but yes, eagle. Well, you you're talking about how inappropriate some of the conversations were, and they were still doing Big Brother uncut. What I liked about Big Brother aren't cut, though, is they basically would get them all passed on a Thursday. 

They seemed to have some good chemistry. 

There. A. 

There you go. Things. 

Tonight and they would sit them around, they would spit them with so much alcohol and they would just record everything and those conversations. Yeah. In hindsight, I watched a couple of episodes of Big Brother Uncut today when I was pulling the show together and or pulling my part of the show together, let's face it, I don't do ****** roll for this except get a few production. 

Roll Tide. 

Bits and pieces. Mel does. She's the brain trust behind the whole thing, so I don't want to steal your Thunder. But I was watching some Big Brother uncut. And those conversations are so honest. They are just. They were very honest. 

Yes. 

Relations because everyone does go into that house with an agenda, but you can't keep up that facade for the entire time. 

And I think you forget some. There's gonna be some point where you forget the cameras are rolling and you're just gonna do your. 

Thing well, especially after you have a few drinks like or a few, you know, maybe 20 drinks because they are just messed up. But one of my favourite conversations. 

Hmm. 

In in the Big Brother House was was when Igor remember Igor. Nobody really remember, remembers Igor. But I remember Igor as well. Eggs. Cause he was just. I don't know if we loved him. But Igor. Igor on Big Brother uncut. 

Age. 

I remember eagle. 

We love the Eagles. 

We appreciate it. 

What's the most you've ever done in one day? 12 done 12/12 12:12 the 24 hour period having sex four times in one day. A 24 hour period. You. 24 times. 

Where? 

There's two really good quotes. One is get stuffed eggs, but the second one not. In one day, a 24 hour period one day is a 24 hour period, you idiot. Like it's just, I mean, it's embarrassing, isn't it? 

Yeah. 

Ohh it was special I. 

It's embarrassing. One one thing that I think. Really actually dated quite well, though. Do you remember? And this would have happened probably three or four weeks prior to the eviction, which we didn't cover in the podcast at the time, but we'll just, we'll do a a big block of Big Brother brought to you by Smoke Masters BBQ if you wanna risk it for the brisket. The the was. I'm not being paid by. Scotty's gonna be like, listen, how much do I owe you? And? And the fact is I I owe. 

It. 

Like he's gonna be like can. 

You please not speak about. 

Me in the show. 

Yeah, he's probably like, I don't wanna be yourself. My I don't want my brand associated with your. 

So don't be so sad with. 

Me. Don't be tainted by your brands. 

Brand. One of the things that I think has dated better than expected was Mel. Mullen and his big protest remember? So there was. 

Merlin. He was. He was a magician, wasn't he, Merlin? 

A there. 

I was gonna say a character. I don't think he was. I think he just had hippie parents and they gave him that name. His name was Merlin Luck and he got evicted from the Big Brother House, walked down the thing. The crowd are going berserk. They've got a one hour episode every week dedicated to the eviction where they interview and riff back and forwards and talk to the house. 

Was he? Did he do magic tricks? OK. 

Mates about their time in the house and all of that sort of stuff and Merlin put some gaffer tape across his mouth and held up a a sign that said free the. Because he he'd lost the eye on it. But it said it said free the refugees and he refused to speak through that entire episode. And I remember at the time he was hated for doing that. But in hindsight, I actually think that was a really cool thing to do, to completely derail a highly successful. 

Ohh did he? 

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. 

Hmm. 

Commercial TV show in prime time. 

And I think too, that they started to realise when they came out of the house, they were instant celebrities, right? 

Yes. 

That so that's opportunity. So they don't win, but the next best opportunity is when they come out of the house to start positioning themselves in, you know, whatever they wanna do. Thinking about, I've got this air time. I wanna be a celebrity. I wanna be famous. I'm gonna put it out there. I wanna be on radio. I wanna be on TV like that's their that's their big opportunity. 

Yeah. Yeah. 

Coming out of the house, he comes out. 

Right. 

But and and he gives that opportunity to A cause that he really believes in, back at the Big Brother said today, controversial evictee Merlin. Luck was unrepentant. 

And. Yeah, free the refugees, dude. 

Last night, the 24 year old refused to speak after he was evicted during a live broadcast, preferring a silent protest. Over refugees in detention. 

Merlin. Merlin, are you gonna speak? 

It was a deliberate action to create controversy because controversy, sadly, is often the only way to create debate, to spark debate and discussion. 

And stunt turned the tables on Big Brother, the reality TV producers admit they had no back up plan. 

We have to, as producers, be clever to make sure that we are always in control of the show and. You know, like that we maybe lost control for a couple. 

Of minutes. I hope that even people who disagree with my point respect that I was being real, because this is reality television. 

Refugee groups are applauding his decision. 

We think what Melinda did was simply fantastic. Last night, it was very courageous by a young person to say what really needs to be said. 

But the Minister for Immigration says Merlin is misguided. 

He's obviously not very well informed the sign. 

That he was. 

Carrying said to free the refugees, there are no refugees and detention centres. 

Merlin will have more to say on tonight's live nomination show, Katrina Zaffer, 10 News. 

Ohh, there goes Amanda Vanstone coming in and raining on his parade. OK, you know. 

But the fact that too, because they don't I I thought they weren't allowed to have pens and things in the house. So the fact that he he had the I don't even know where he got the tapes from. So he's been squirrelling away away from the cameras getting this sign. 

Well, yeah, he's type, yeah. 

Yeah. 

Prepared getting this tape to put over his mouth prepared like that's pretty amazing. But you're right though. He was. Everybody hated him for that. And I mean, I think the host in me at the time was like. 

Yes. Yeah. It's like prison break or something. Yeah, yeah. 

Ohh my God, imagine trying to like being Gretel at that point in time, not knowing that that was gonna happen and not having someone to talk to. It's live television. What do you do? And everybody just piled on him. 

Yeah. 

I know. She she actually Gretel. Clean in that moment. 

But. 

And I think like that's it's testament to her capability as a host because that would have been imagine you and I know what it's like to host live. 

She handled it beautifully, yeah. 

Hmm. 

Stuff to be thrown. A curveball like that and go. OK, we've got one hour of live TV to get through here, and this dude isn't gonna talk like, what am I gonna do? And she would have had a an earpiece with producers screaming in it. Yeah. Just gonna. 

Yeah. 

Freaking out. They wouldn't have been. Any hey. 

Make him talk. 

Yeah, you'd be like, what do you want me to do? Yeah, like, how do you want me to make him talk anyway? But I do like the craftiness. Like you were saying, of being able to fashion that sign. It's a very prison. See if that was me, I would have figured out a way to fashion some kind of Shiv and stabbed Igor in the. 

Rip that off his face. Yeah. 

Yeah. 

What a MacGyver. 

Dallas. 

Book. 

So we didn't read, hey, before we I I I forgot to mention when we were talking about Harold and Kumar, hmm. SoCal Penn, the guy that played Kumar, I think a lot of people probably know this anyway he he after acting he went on. He's the former associate director of White House office and. Public liaison. Yeah, he was working. He was a public servant. He was working for the White House as a staffer under the Obama administration. 

No way. 

And I think that's appropriate given the book that we didn't read, that we're talking about this week. 

Yes, we are talking about the non fiction. New York Times bestseller for this week, 20 years ago, my life, the 2004 autobiography written by former U.S. President Bill Clinton. 

Now I'm I'm gonna revisit this little piece of music because he served as the Governor of Arkansas. I think so. I feel like this music is really appropriate. So I'm going back to Scott Buckley's music, the copyright, free music, wanderlust. And if you want some free copyright music. 

Ah yes. 

Go and look up Scott. Scott, really. Yeah. 

Buckley. 

I did not have sexual relations with. 

Can I just say he got before you get into the synopsis? Yes, he got 15,000,000 for that in like our money today. That'll be around 24,000,000. Advance advance. 

Really. 

For the book, for the book. 

For the book, yes, yeah, yes. 

Yeah, that'd be like winning Big Brother 15 times. Be huge or 24 times in the Australian thing. OK, Reese. 

OK. Well, tell us about my life. 

An exhaustive soul searching memoir, Bill Clinton's my life is a refreshingly candid look at the former president as a son, brother, teacher, father, husband, and public figure. They don't mention philanderer or pantsman there and painstakingly outlines the history behind his greatest successes and. 

Clint. 

Failures, including his dedication to educational and economic reform, his war against a vast right wing operation determined to destroy him and the morally indefensible acts for which he was nearly impeached. Ohh, that's good. He called it morally indefensible quote unquote. Yes, my life is an autobiography as therapy, a personal history. Written by a man trying to face and banish his private demons. 

There. 

That are not so private. 

Clinton approaches the story of his youth with gusto, sharing tales of giant watermelons, 9 LB tumours, a charging RAM, famous mobsters and jazz musicians, and a BB gun stand. He offers an equally energetic portrait of American history, pop culture, and the evolving political landscape, covering the historical events that shaped his early years and only the deaths of Martin Luther King and JFK, and the events that shaped his presidency. There you go. 

We all wanted to know about the affair. It's like when. Hillary's book. Came out. It's like, where's the chapter? Or? I think at the time everyone bought Hillary's book and they were disappointed because there was. 

Did we know? I feel like we know enough about the affair. 

Nothing about it. 

Really. 

And then so. They went well. It's gotta be in bills. And I don't think I don't think it was really covered in. His book either very. 

Ohh wow. Well, what did the what? 

Very disappointed. 

Did the cause? I didn't. Read it but. 

There's no what. 

I could not think of anything more boring than indulging in a memoir of a politician of built like of like, well, any politician, really. I mean, you know, I've seen enough of them at this stage. 

Bill Clinton. 

Don't really want to know any. I mean it, it takes a lot. 

No, no, don't spend your. 

Free time reading their books. Yeah, I agree. 

Yeah. 

So we'll start with. Cooks and mum? Or is it cooks on mum? Cook is the last name Cookson and that's the mum of the Cookson's. Or is there a bunch of cooks on mum? This is mysterious. 

So mum. That is a far more interesting question than what we think of this. 

Book one star umm, looking forward to this very long book, several chapters in on day one update, I'm stalled. I haven't picked it up in quite some time, although it holds my drink nicely on the night stand lol update on the update. 

I knew it. I knew it. It's a coaster. Ohh the OK. 

Sent it back. 

To the library my night stand was getting sick of holding this behemoth. 

I was at the library. 

Up. Well, I hope you can't be using it book from the library as a coaster. 

Hi. 

The. I wouldn't have contact on it. They always contact their books. 

Probably that's right. Chanda Hog Chanda Hog is the username for this person mate. Yeah ******* hog. Give it one star. 

Yeah. Fantastic. 

Day one got my haircut. Day 2 married Hillary Day three, got another haircut. Day four passed the bar. Day five scandal day. Six tried to blow up Osama bin Laden with a missile. Day 7 drew moustaches on Barack Obama's lawn posters. The end? Yeah, that's a very concise synopsis of the. 

Ah, food. I like that. 

Story. Yeah. 

So the scandals in there on day 5? 

Yeah. 

The day on and on the 5th day he soiled a blue dress. Yeah. 

Had your life used. Kerry A1 star do not recommend was the only member of my book club who actually finished it, still holding a grudge. 

The rest of the people in the book club imagine that you well, especially if you were in the book club. And yeah, and then you didn't choose that particular book. 

Are holes. I finished it and you. Didn't this is really unfair? I'd be. 

Yeah. And you read the whole thing. And the person that shows it didn't read it and then didn't show. 

And then you're. Only one who read it. Yeah. 

Up that week. 

Yeah, I'd be like I I'm not. I'm not bringing a plate next. 

That's why. Hate book clubs. 

Time you can you can have your own charcuterie. I'm just not. I'm out. I'm. Daniel Yao, David one star. My dad bought this book but never read it, so Bill Clinton's face would always stare at. 

Me from the bookshelf. 

So Daniel didn't read it either. Daniel's just picked that bill, staring at him every night from the bookshelves they thought he'd jump on the good reads and let everyone know about it. 

I'm sorry. What kind of bookshelf do you have? Daniel Yao, where the front cover of your book is facing you the entire time? 

Oh, so you've got well, well. 

That's obviously got a bit of a display going on the bookshelves, so stop. 

Really. 

You have the yeah. Like if you turn. 

Around I've got one on display. I think it's like our wedding album. I've got it. 

Really. 

Facing front woods cause it. Look, it looks arty. 

OK, so so I was about. I was about to say and I can see that book on display behind me right now. But I I was about to say that if you put books on display like that, you're a bit of a ******. 

It's an arty book shop, but I love. 

Especially if it's in a central point. He has. I mean, he's different this. 

But of all the books to choose, why would you cause? Yeah, I'd pick something that's sort of aesthetically pleasing or meaningful, but I don't think Bill Clinton's face is aesthetically pleasing in the middle of your bookshelf. But I love that Daniel Yao hasn't even read the book, but goes and makes a good Read's profile. 

That's nice. 

So that involves a password and a username and all kinds of things, and an email address just to tell us that bloody Dad has never read it. But it's staring at me from dad's. 

Just so he can tell us that. 

Shelf. I'm sorry, Daniel. I hope you're alright. Hope you're doing. 

That's a lot. That's a lot, right? OK, I think he needs help. I really do. If he's, he's obviously got. He's got a couple of issues there and they all stem from Dad. Yes. Yes. Well, I'm gonna do the next one as well. See one star. I think he might have banged more hoes than he said he did. 

I. 

Did. 

Great. I think that's very true. 

Trivia Alchemy One star trivia alchemy. 

3 alchemy that's a that's see that I was looking at that word cause it's not a word, it's a made up word. And I was like. 

It's 2 words combined. What's that called? 

I was like, well, the first thing I looked at it was trivial chemi. It doesn't work at all, but it's trivial alchemy. Yes, trivia alchemy, which is very geeky. 

The. Yes, trivia alchemy says. I like Bill Clinton. I do not like reading 1008 pages of Bill Clinton talking about himself. Holy ****. 

I'm sorry, but that is idiotic, trivial alchemy. So you that you were clever up until the point where you thought of your username and then your IQ just dropped immensely because you're buying an autobiography. Yes. Like, which is literally literally somebody talking about themselves. 

That's I'm talking about myself. 

For like on every page. 

What did you think you were gonna get? 

Yes. 

Yeah, you idiot. Emily's son. Two stars out of all the presidents I could have spent 1000 pages with. 

That's 1008 pages and my son. 

Sorry. Well, the according to trivia alchemy it is. But she says 1000, so I don't know. Maybe she skipped ahead 8 pages somewhere there. 

Why did I choose? 

Bill Clinton, I can't. I can't help you with. Good question. I mean, you know, if I was gonna choose 1000 pages on a president's autobiography, Trump. 

For the president, who? 

Would you choose? 

Absolutely. 

Would be a good story. Good story. Probably be in the fiction section would be good. 

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I don't know. 

Story. 

Wow, that's been a lot blood doping with Lance Armstrong, Big Brother and Bill Clinton. I mean, I feel like I need a shower after this week's episode. I just feel a bit gross. Just feel a bit, you know? Yeah. I feel like there's some kind of stain on my blue dress. 

Bill. Bit dirty feel. Bit dirty. Yeah, bit bit of death hole. This affects yourself. 

And I just, I don't feel great. 

Alright, well, we have a lovely a lovely birthday. 

We do and it's a clue. Somebody who's having a birthday this week that said this. 

They say that age is nothing but a number, but technically it's also a word. 

Now if you said Siri. 

Well, don't say that you set my. Phone off. Ohh. 

You would be incorrect. But if you said Susan Alice Bennett. You'd be on the money. 100%. Correct. Susan Alice Bennett, AKA The voice of Siri. 

Yes. 

It's it's her birthday. She was born on the 31st of July 1940. 

Nine, yes, American voice actress and former backup singer for Roy Orbison and a guy called Burt. 

Really Burt Bacharach? Who's that? You don't know who Burt Bacharach is? 

Do. Know who that is. Who? Is that? Well, I feel like I should now judge by. 

The look of your face. 

One moment please. 

What did Bert sing? 

Only some of the most famous songs of all time. 

But not as famous as Roy Orbison obvious. 

Really. Yes. Really. 

100%. 

Well, what does he sing? 

It's on my phone, sorry. What the world needs now is love. 

Hello. 

What about? Alright. 

Hi. 

The look of. 

Love. Ohh well I didn't. 

Alright. 

Know what a Burt Bacharach was? Sorry. Why did something suddenly appear when you're near Ohh is. 

Yeah, close to you. That birds ohh so many things walk on by. Do you know the way to San Jose? 

Well then I feel like being. 

Yeah, backup singer for Roy. And Burt is probably bigger than being Siri. That's pretty amazing, but she's obviously best known as the female American voice of Siri. 

Yeah. 

Since it was introduced on the iPhone 4S in 2011 and she was the voice up until 2013, but we are talking about it because she actually recorded it in 2005, so almost 20 years ago, but she didn't record it for Siri. 

Yes. 

That's not the job that she went in for. 

I did the original series recordings in 2005 and Siri appeared on October 4th, 2011. And I didn't know anything about it until a fellow voice actor emailed me and said, hey, we're playing around with this new. IPhone app isn't this you? And I went. Really. So I went on the Apple site and listened and I went oh, Oh my. On the one hand I thought, wow, I'm basically the the new voice of Apple. That's pretty cool. But the fact that I apparently had auditioned without knowing. 

It. 

That really took me back. 

Yeah, that was. 

I would be. 

A very polite way of saying I got screwed over. 

Yeah, but she's never gonna say that because she's she's. 

Sorry, you've screwed me over. 

I'm sorry I didn't get paid. She I think she did get paid but not paid in the way that she should have got paid for. And I don't know. I mean, this is unprecedented territory, right? Yeah. But for a like a A virtual assistant and A and a voice that's going to be on every single iPhone or Apple device. 

Absolutely. 

Yeah. This happens a lot. 

That somebody buys. Is it that's really full on and how long is she gonna be the voice for? Is it like in? Perpetuity or whatever. 

Yes. Yeah. 

Yeah, this this is a massive can of worms. This is a can of worms that becomes even more of a can of worms now in. 

Yeah. 

The day and age of AI, right? 

Hey, I'm yeah. Absolutely. So she did, I think a a software company was looking for a voice for a voice database, and they were looking at doing speech construction. So. The idea behind that is you read out a whole bunch of phrases, words, passages from books. Yeah, they take the words. So you effectively need to say pretty much every word that ever there was. And they then they then build these words in this vocabulary from what you've recorded. But she was I I don't think she was even the person that they wanted to hire for the job. 

Hmm. 

The person was away that day and she was she was just there. And she's also a voice over artist with the same company representation. 

Yes. 

But she wasn't the person that they chose. They chose someone else, and that person was sick. So then they said Ohh, would you like to audition? So she worked for hours each day. I think she even recorded from her home studio. And so she would have been paid for the work of recording. But to be something like a Voice Assistant on an apple. 

For the time. Yeah, yeah, Yep. 

Device you should be being paid big bloody bucks and that's not what she recorded and what she signed up for. Yeah, they then took that database and then created Siri from all of the the recordings. 

Yeah. 

Well cause cause the other thing is is not. 

That she made. 

Not knowing that, unaware being unaware of that happening, means that like all of a sudden, you go in for an audition for another job and they're like, oh, that person sounds too much like Siri. I can't use it. So you do yourself out of a job as well. It's it's there's a lot of. And this is what I'm talking about with the whole AI thing as well because like Siri is obviously AI and it's a voice that has been constructed. 

We. Yeah, we won't hire you. 

Yeah, yeah, yes. 

Based on the bio. Patrick print of a real person with biometric voice print of a real person and she she was completely unaware that that's what they were doing and Apple never actually acknowledged or confirmed that it was her that they were using. So CNN get these audio forensic experts in and they say. 

With her voice. Yeah, yeah. 

Yeah, yeah. 

With 100% certainty that she is the voice of Siri, so Apple don't comment, so see and then go oh, we'll get a check, she says. It's true. Why would you? Why would you put yourself out there if it wasn't? And she's never been refuted? 

Hmm. 

No. And she she started following me on Twitter, and I was so excited that day. I was like Siri is following me. And it's happened that that has happened a lot. So another voice actor, Bev Bev standing, who's in a couple of voice over groups. I don't know her personally. She's in a couple groups. I mean, she she all of a sudden got and the same, same deal friends of hers. 

No. Really. That is, that's a big. Day. 

Emailed her or contacted her and they're like, why are you swearing on TikTok and so her? She was the first. Yeah. She was the first AI. You know, when TikTok started doing the AI voice. 

What I'm not swearing, obviously, though, that's not mean. Yeah. 

Over. 

Hmm. 

She was the first AI voice over on TikTok. And people were making the AI swear because haha. So funny. And so she had put her voice to a similar thing. She was auditioning for something that was completely unrelated and they somehow got hold of her voice and there was a big lawsuit around that as well because for her, all of these people are using. 

Yeah. 

The voice and making her say rude words that then affects her livelihood, not only because she's this voice of TikTok that she never signed up for, but because of the profanity around that. So there was a big case with that. I donated my voice so they were doing. 

Hmm. Hmm. 

About five years ago, they were making synthetic voices, so you know for people who can't speak and the text to speech, and they use text to speech to communicate. 

So instead of like having a voice over like what Stephen Hawking used to have where it's like, you know, and it's like a robot. 

Yes, exactly. And that was the thing. It was like we wanna be able to create voices for people that are more like their own voices. So there's not this generic voice. Yeah. And it was a beautiful idea and a beautiful company. And So what you did was. You donated your voice in terms of forming the words. They're very similar to what Susan and Bev would have done. You read passages from books, so you're covering vocabulary and sound, and you're forming the phonics. And then they'd take a sample from the person who couldn't speak. So what? Their voice would sound like they'd do some sort of sampling from their vocal cords or something. I don't know how they did it. 

Yeah. 

Yeah. 

Yeah, mix it with your words. They called it like mixing colours to paint voices. 

Yep. 

So they put. 

Right. 

That person's vocals over the words that you formed and you donate your voice. So I went and did this and then this other company has now bought out this company and what do they dabble? 

Well, that that sounds lovely. 

Hmm. 

Ohh. 

In. AI voices synthetic voices. 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cool. 

So it's pretty, yeah, you've never really owned your own voice. 

I can't wait until I get like some kind of spam phone call from you. That'll be great. 

It's it is it? 

Let's see. 

The the It's, it's it. It is a whole ethical. The thing is, is our brains and our ethics don't move as fast as the way AI evolves. 

And I guess it's the same for AI, for artists as well, you know, music and and graphic design and painting and visuals like, yeah, how do you, how do you truly own your own work in in this world? 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where it's like, let's, let's just keep AI for doing things like maybe housework. 

Yes, the boring crap. 

You know, you know, like menial tasks, menial tasks until it becomes sentient and then wants to be emancipated like some kind of slave. And then we're in all sorts of trouble anyway. It's evolving faster than you could possibly imagine, but the whole thing for the voiceover industry is actually really quite scary, especially when you see things happening like that because it is unchartered territory. 

Yes. 

Yeah. 

Yes. 

So there's no prep. Incident. So it's like, well, Apple did that and they're like, well, yeah, we did that. But there's no precedent to say we couldn't do that. You came in, you did your time in the voice over Booth. You got paid, you know, and and and you signed, you might have signed something, I don't know. 

Yeah. You got paid for recording. Yeah, yeah. But you didn't sign for that particular use. 

Well, no, but you didn't not sign. For it. Like it's just so grey and gross. And anyway, happy birthday. I hope she got a lot of money. 

Well, she I. 

Think she handled it very well? She was very gracious in every interview that she did about it, but I hope behind the scenes she was fairly paid for that. Because that's a big deal. That's a big deal. 

Yeah. And like, that's with Apple either. 

And I feel like I know her very well. I've been asking her many questions over the years, and she's been telling me sorry I didn't get that. 

Yes. I know well in in I haven't spoken to her that kindly. I have to say I think Siri, Siri and Alexa are probably. 

Do you do sometimes swear there and have to shake? Can you please be nice? 

Who are the most abused people? Because you can speak to them like you don't. Speak to anyone. Just answer them. 

Question. Turn the freaking light on. 

You know. Yeah, exactly. I'm sorry. That's my fault that I made Siri turn the lights on. In the house. 

I know the house is always dark and I've got no idea how. To turn the television on. 

Well, you know what? That's that's that comes from the fact that as a child, I used to watch beyond 2000 all the time and we're 24 years past 2000. Yeah, it was 24. And then beyond. And it's like we are well beyond. We're 24 years beyond 2000 now. There's no hover cars, there's no robots. 

It was to what? To was 2000, wasn't it, when we were kids towards 2000? Well, we had what we finally had Y2K. So, you know, who knows what's next? 

But there's no Rd. All we've got is freaking Siri and a Roomba. And that's it. That's the end of the show. You at least. I mean, how good is technology? Isn't it great that it's 2024 and at least you can automatically download us to your favourite podcast app? So thank you very much for listening. What's happening next week, Mel? 

We're going to outer space. There's a spacecraft that launches, I think we're looking at mercury this this time. 

Oh, are we wonderful? Ohh, I love space stories. 

Statue of Liberty reopens after September 11. 

That's exciting for. 

Lean back. I was supposed to talk about it this week, but we will close the lean. 

Lean back. Ohh yes, you need to close. The loop on that. 

Backward. 

Circle back on Lean back. 

We will. What else have we got? Some new movies, another reality show. Ohh, we're video game and another. 

Book. That's a lot. 

Great. That is a lot. That's a lot to look forward to if you like, if you like this week, next week's gonna be even better or probably more of the same. But regardless, like you'll be there, we'll be there and we'll all have a good time together. We really appreciate you listening to us. Thank you very much. Go and find us on the socials, Facebook Insta. 

Please join us. 

Graham, I I should probably give up on TikTok, but don't give up on TikTok. There's it's it's something to do while you're taking it. Search for t -, 20 podcast. Thank you very much. We'll see. You next week. 

Hey man. 

For taking the time to rewind, join us next time for another week. That was 20 years ago in the meantime. Come and reminisce on the socials search for T -, 20 podcast on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.