T minus 20
The year is 2004... Your polyphonic ringtone habit is sending you broke. George W Bush is sworn in for a second term. And in spite of everything going on, the most controversial thing is a wardrobe malfunction at the superbowl?
T minus 20, rewind to this week in history 20 years ago with Joe and Mel.
T minus 20
Jay-Z and Linkin Park collide
This week, the heartbreaking Shaanxi coal mine explosion in China. A methane gas build-up caused one of the deadliest mining disasters ever, claiming 166 lives and shining a harsh light on the dangers of an industry where safety often took a backseat. 💔💨
But in Wales, it was all about the glow-up! ✨ After years of drama (and a scrapped Zaha Hadid opera house), the Wales Millennium Centre finally opened its doors. With its slate-clad walls and local flair, this cultural hub proved you can mix world-class art with a bit of Welsh grit. 🎶🦉
Meanwhile, Shawn Fanning—the Napster bad boy turned music industry’s reformed rebel—launched SNOCAP. Imagine Napster, but legal. His tech promised a win-win for artists and fans alike, but could it survive in the wild west of early digital music? 🤔💿
On the airwaves, Mario crooned “Let Me Love You” while Joel Turner’s These Kids delivered an Aussie Idol redemption arc with a beatbox edge and a heavy message about youth struggles. 🎤🇦🇺đźŽ
Plus, Jay-Z and Linkin Park dropped the mashup magic of Collision Course 🎸🎤, and Kelly Clarkson reminded us that with Breakaway, there’s always a way out of pop pigeonholes. In TV news we saw Ken Jennings’ epic Jeopardy! streak-ending and the debut of Project Runway🧵💡
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Transcript is generated automatically
The year is 2004. Your polyphonic ringtone habit is sending. You broke. Yeah. George W Bush is sworn in for a second term. And in spite of everything going on, the most controversial thing is a wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl. T -, 20 rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel.
Week Ohh 28 November 2004.
-20, you know what? I'm very forgetful.
The rest is history.
Hello. There. Stop trying to make fetch happen. This is harder than I thought it would be.
My fellow Americans.
Let's roll.
Hello everyone and welcome to yet another episode where we cast your Minds back 20 years. Do you know what that? Feels like. Feels old. That's what it feels like. T -. 20 is the name of the podcast with your host, Joe and Mel. I'm trying to sound young and invigorated.
Hello, Mel, you don't. Ah, we're rewinding to 2004, getting towards the end of 2004, aren't we? We've got the 28th of November through to the 4th of December.
The worst thing in the world as an entrepreneur that I've experienced is something. We kind of call startup, you know, purgatory.
Start up purgatory. I didn't even know startups were a thing back in 2004. That's how stupid I was 20 years ago. But they were, and we'll find out more about that a little later on in the show.
The category is business and industry and here is the clue, ladies and gentlemen, most of this firm's 70,000 seasonal white collar employees work only four months a year.
Right.
That is a game show that we didn't get in Australia, but I do remember seeing it on TV. I I'm trying to think if it was late at night or maybe in the afternoons mid afternoon so.
I just think it was a mid afternoon, yeah.
Yeah, we're we're getting to the stage where it's almost been 20 years since I lost my job. So I did have some spare time, and I think I might have watched this show during that time. It's all a bit of a blur.
Wow.
Thanks for him, me and my brother didn't realise the impact this track was gonna have when we wrote it were just a couple of young guys make.
And music just a couple of young guys making music. This song was big. It was very big.
He was a he was on idol. He was he didn't win idol, he was on idol and then went off and did his own thing.
An idol, was he? Yes. Well, he had a he had more than just singing talent, this particular artist.
He had a few few unique skill sets, yes.
He did have some skills. He was very good with his mouth. And not just for singing. You can draw what? Yes, yes.
I'm.
Looking back, I've I've actually really changed my view on this person and I really, really like this song. So much so that I'm creating a Spotify playlist of right stuff. I hate it at the time, but this year on team -20.
Have you?
I've really grown to like it. That's the name.
I want I want in on that can I get in on that because there are some songs believe it or not that I've I've garnered or scraped from the Billboard charts.
Of the playlists.
Yes.
I know.
Yes.
Well, over the course of the year that I'm like, you know what, I actually don't mind that.
Hated at the time, or was indifferent at the time? And now? Yeah.
Don't get me wrong, it's still shy, so I just enjoy it. Now you just get kind of too old to care. I'm too old to have all that hate in my life for, for music and whatnot, to just very quickly. So we're talking about things with your mouth. What are you putting in yours? Look. I can see a can of something over there. Let it. I think we're under no illusions here. We do like to have a bit of a beverage on the podcast. It's it's kind of our date night where we like to have a couple of drinks about the night of the week that we do have a few drinks. So we just have a few drinks and get, you know, a little bit loosened up for you.
Ohh. It's. Romantic.
Yes.
Guys to to, you know, keep things flowing.
Say random things.
Is that what I that the label on that can says sub zero and it's the same? I think it's the same logo this is.
Familiar.
This isn't 20 years ago. This is the.
90s, yes, the black circle with the word sub zero.
Yes, the white text very plain, very minimalist. Ugly font, yes, alco pops. They were. It was an ALCO pop. Right was one of the 1st.
And it was something. And if you were, yeah, it was I. Think it was vodka. And it didn't really have too much flavouring. You know, I think it's sort of a lemonade vodka, but if you were feeling a bit fancy, you'd ask for a grenadine like a sub zero. And grenadine. I used to get that at the Cam bar in and they'd be like, what's?
Bit of a shot of grin and gain in. It what's that one? Can I have a look?
This grenadine you're talking about.
Well, that's that's that's that's not clear, that's.
But I bought.
Hola.
Cause occasionally I go, you know, I'll have a cruiser and I'll go. I'll go back to the early 2000s and I saw that in the bottle shop today, thinking it was the sub zero and grenadine. But no, it's cola. It's Kohler.
But it looks like it can. I have a taste.
And vodka. Yeah. OK.
How many calories? Kenny macros.
Ohh dear yes, but back in the early 2000s you drink a blue drink out of a out of a bathtub no problem. And now you're you're counting your your calories. It's low calorie, actually.
Oh, that's.
But.
It's not too bad. It's not too.
There goes that endorsement won't be getting any sponsors from them.
Bad, but that's. Can we go back to to Spotify, to the Spotify list? And it's gonna be the list of yeah songs that I either hate it or was indifferent towards. In the early 2000s, but quite like in the year 20.
Yes, sorry, back to Spotify.
20 fours. Yeah, but I. Actually think that's probably gonna turn out to be my Spotify rapped? Everyone's starting to get nervous now because we've. We got few weeks at time of recording few weeks till Spotify wrapped comes out with the list of what you've been listening to and well, I'm not nervous because I know I know pretty much what my rap will be, but a lot of people are nervous and there was talk that because it comes out we don't know the exact date but it sort of comes out towards the end of the year.
Are you nervous?
There was discussion that maybe the data closed off on Halloween 31st of October so that the Spotify people could do.
Really.
All their data analysis.
How fitting, says Spotify turned into a pumpkin.
Right.
So that they could, they could pull all the numbers, everyone was getting nervous cause like ohh no. But I I normally cram in November to get my Spotify looking good so I could put it on the socials and make it socially acceptable and undo all that. Undo all. Yeah. Undo all the the bad listening from across the year. All the unhinged listening. You gotta try.
Is that is. What is? That what people do.
And cover your tracks.
So it's, it's not even about, it's not even about the enjoyment that you're getting out of listening to music, which is kind of the reason why you would do it in the first.
It's like a cram at the last minute.
Place it's about demonstrating to others that you listen to music. That's cool.
Ah, look for some for some people. For some people, they gotta lift their game at the end of the I I love, there's been a lot of discussion about Spotify raps. Yeah, on the socials, Spotify. The only tech company to figure out how to successfully rebrand. We've been tracking you too. Isn't this fun?
Yeah. Uh-huh.
That's good, Spotify. Hey, remember those songs you played non stop this year. Me. Yes, Spotify. Are you sick of them? Me so sick. Of. Them Spotify would you like to listen to all of them again? :) me? Yes, smiley.
Face. That's great, that's.
Great, you listen to cool music every day, but play mambo #5. One time and Spotify is like your number one artist issue as Lou Bagger. We told him you want to meet. Him. He told him you wanna meet? But then people started thinking about, well, you know, maybe we should get other things to start using our data and give us this kind of end of year in review because you know, everyone's got our data these days. I like this suggestion. WebMD wrapped. How many times did my tummy hurt this year? That's clever, isn't it?
Yes. Ohh, that's good, that's good. Good.
What would be your wrapped? What's something that you look up or do a lot during. Yeah, that could be really embarrassing if it was shared with the world.
On the Internet. Yeah, I don't know if I can say it on the podcast. No, I'm kidding. It'd be BBQ stuff. It'd be like it'd be like time and temp be time and temp for various meats. And I I'd always do it and cause I'm not like you. Where I don't have tabs in my browser, so I constantly am searching for the recipes that I had and then lost and then never find again.
Ohh OK. Barbecue wraps. Ohh, how many times did I checked? Well, say OK those times open.
It's actually, I don't mind it. I like living on the edge. It's all part of the adventure. It's a big adrenaline rush, so I'm actually quite boring. This is BBQ.
Well, lease and free. Wraps.
Tabs.
Mine would be snaps and. Sole wraps you know where you.
Ohh with the council.
Take the photo and you upload it to the Council and.
Yeah.
I reckon I've. Officially reached Wales of status, I would have got a would have got a Wales a badge she likes like you have uploaded 5600 photos and complained about 687 things.
We were showing your eyes. Yes.
And dubbed on about 600 people. Yeah, and you're old and cranky. That's been my snaps and sold.
That's wonderful, but they need to then tell you how many problems that you solve.
That.
They do tell you I, you know, those railings down near Woolworths, next to the path.
Yes, yes.
May.
That was you, you snaps and solved that.
Me. I complained because cars were parking somewhere where they shouldn't, and I thought it was very dangerous because they were parking dangerously close to a footpath and so the initial snaps and soles they put railings around the footpath so the cars weren't near the footpath. But I complained again saying that well, this isn't a car park so they shouldn't be parking there because people walk across that.
Yep.
Yeah.
Grass. Yeah. Now there's bollards so you can't park there at all. So I'm responsible for the bollards and the railing around the path. I think there should be a plaque dedicated. To me, to.
Yeah. Yeah, not all heroes wear capes.
I'd also have a cameo wrapped this year.
Ohh cameo is in for the but you didn't buy anything on cameo. Just been your search celebrities.
This year you checked, you checked your DM's 5,000,623 times to see if Jaquan responded well. You know what I have an.
Anybody.
Update.
What I bought?
And save it for later. I have an update. I have an update I've I've checked it one more time today.
You do not.
Really.
No.
Something. Something's happened. Something's happened in the cameo dams. Can you believe it?
Ohh no. Where are we going? OK, well, we.
What's about the music?
No, fair enough. Let's do this. God, if that wasn't enough to hook you through, we've got the hatches, matches and dispatches.
Ohh sight sighting. So exciting.
Is it? Yeah. Ohh.
I just. I couldn't believe it cause I was. I don't even know why I opened it and I opened it. I was like what?
Yeah. Wow. Ohh. When you mentioned it, I got like a stabbing pain in my chest. I was like, maybe I. Will. Go on to Web MD. Anyway, this is hatches, matches and dispatches that we're gonna do at the end of the show. It's a celebrity this week that's just having a birthday. That said this.
Is the third year of me being under that and I just I felt like a lot of the things were planned for. Me to do.
Yeah, lot of things planned. Mm-hmm. We'll find out who that is at the end of the show. And now here's Mel with the news.
Alright, 28th of November 2004 we had an explosion in a coal mine in China. In the Shang Sea Province, it was one of the deadliest mining disasters in recent history. At the time, triggered by a gas buildup within the mine methane gas. Which is quite common in coal mines, apparently had accumulated to dangerous levels and led to a massive blast.
Yes. That's what they said. The Canaries in there in the coal mines, you know, and if the Canaries stopped singing it?
Uh.
Because there's usually an inordinate amount of gas, it's time to go well. The Canary generally dies because there's no air because the mines filling up with gas.
I thought it was just if the Canary dodged. I didn't know it was related to the Canaries singing though.
Well, well, because if you well, yeah, they chirped, they're quite vocal Canaries.
I'll just. Alright, so it goes quiet instead.
Yes, it means that it's died, and there's probably some gas and it's time to get the hell out of the mine. It's a very primitive early warning system. This is nothing to joke about, though. 166 miners lost their lives in this disaster at the time of the explosion, 293 miners were working underground.
Hmm.
And only about 127 of them managed to escape, while the others were trapped and perished due to the explosion and also the resulting fires. And as you can imagine, once that kind of ignites, it gets rid of all the oxygen and then they would have suffocated or burned to death. It's a horrible way to go.
Hmm.
And makes it really tricky for rescue operations as well, because there's there's fires. There's a lot of toxic gas, there's debris pretty much impossible to be able to reach the the trapped work as if they're still alive as well. And the recovery process is then slow and dangerous.
Yeah.
And I think it took quite a while to to recover a lot of the victims. Bodies.
Yeah, the IT really did highlight the horrendous safety conditions that exist in China's coal mining industry, and I have to say, when doing the research for this and I I couldn't find any kind of news stories about this specific. The incident, as far as audio or or whatever goes. Plenty of articles about it, but there are hundreds and hundreds of coal mining incidents in China. They don't. They kind of not into the work safe thing they there's. So there is a lot of collapses and and all of that stuff over there they just don't have the same. Oh, and S.
Lots of incidents, yes.
Yes.
As what we perhaps do in in our country or some other countries, it's I guess it's driven a little little bit more by by the almighty dollar perhaps. So their coal mines are notorious high fatality. These, due to inadequate safety, lack of enforcement, and it's, I'm sad to say, that 20 years later, like this is when I was looking at this, this these incidents have have occurred many, many times. Yeah, the last two decades. And I don't know that there's probably an ending insight for them, but they I guess I saw a couple of small articles about, hey, they're trying to improve.
Yeah.
Safety of there. I'm like, yeah, believe that when. I say it. But the Chinese government did launch investigations, and they did promise to enforce stricter safety standards in the mining sector, which obviously is because there has been heaps of incidents since. And yeah, I I just don't know what they they they do to overcome that the industry is clearly driven by the almighty dollar and takes profits over people.
And this one was it was quite hard, too, for the families of the miners, because the miners, as is often the case, are the primary breadwinners and the family and the compensation.
Yeah, yeah.
That the families got paid was was not a lot and obviously fell short of being able to provide for the needs of the families into the future. So that was really.
Yeah.
Sad.
What an awful story to start the news with this week. Well, that's the news for you. It's always.
Sorry.
And that is, I mean imagine that, like, you know, Dad's going to work earning all the money, because that's the way it is over there and all of a sudden that income source is cut off and it just it would have thrown like a few 100 people into abject poverty as a result. Let's do something a little bit. More. Positive. Let's go to Wales, where good things happen all the time. Wales.
Your favourite place, isn't it? One of. Your faves?
Look, I I mean, you know, I feel like I need to give Wales a second chance. Maybe I need to visit Wales.
You probably need to give.
Again.
An apology. Yeah, I feel like you didn't get to experience the true rails.
Yeah, Wales. I'm really sorry that I had an absolute house time when I went to your country about 22 years ago.
What got thrown at you? An ashtray? An ash.
Try yeah.
And what did you eat? Pippies. Did you eat pippies? Cockles. Is that like, is that a pippy?
Ohh. Cockles, cockles which are basically it's a mollusk. It's like a little, I think of that. I think that it reminded me of the snails that they used to clean fish tanks.
It's in a shell.
Well, that's yeah. Made my stomach turn a bit and and lava bread, which was warmed up seaweed.
Ohh the the same way. Well ohh gosh. Great time. Great place. They opened the Wales Millennium Centre or the WMC. It was the official opening on the 28th of November 2004 in Cardiff Bay and it's become one of Wales.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
That's right.
Most iconic cultural landmarks, it's it's their version of the Opera House, really.
Yeah, it's. Well, the Welsh are. Very well known for their singing ability.
Really.
And I mean well, look at Tom Jones, the Welsh, the Welsh love, a good sing song and that that was on the BBC. It all happened live. I think this dude's name was was at Michael Bell. I don't know. Something like that. Anyway, I'm not a big fan of their style of music, but he was. He is a great vocalist and.
Oh, OK.
The BBC were all over this.
Waiting backstage, stars from the world of opera dance and music theatre all preparing to play their part in a royal gala to celebrate the opening of this revolutionary new Centre for the Performing Arts. Over the weekend, 10s of thousands of people queued around the block, eager to have a chance to see inside this place. Just 1900 people are lucky enough to have tickets for tonight's spectacular. There is in the air a real sense of occasion of excitement and anticipation.
Forget my shoulder. When you're in need. Forgetting birthdays is guaranteed and should I love you, you would be. The last to know. I won't send roses. And roses soon.
No.
Great acoustics in the WMC that sounded lovely filled the room well. Yeah, felt like I.
If you. Yes. Beautiful rich Welsh vocals. See what I mean? Was. It was packed. Yeah. So the idea for this began in the early 90s. I wanted to create a world.
Going. Yes.
Class venue for opera. Theatre, dance and music. Very similar. I mean, we've got a performing arts centre here in Queen Bee in the queue, which would be our answer to the Wales Millennium Centre. Yeah, I think that the world should probably be a bit offended by that. And I think now that I've mentioned it, people from the queue would probably be offended by the fact that I'd say that they're not as good as the whales.
Hmm. Yes.
Millennium said. But I think that there it was. OK. Yeah. So I'm in trouble, but. But the Wales Millennium Centre, the WMC was basically their answer to the Sydney Opera House, yes.
Yes. And it kind of it it, it has its own unique shape as well. And I think when they first were looking at what they were going to do, people could submit designs. It was one of those, put it out to the public and see what comes back.
Yeah. Yes. And then you get opera, mic, opera face.
Pretty much, and I think that they got a design by a renowned architect. So anyone could enter but an architect entered.
Well, I mean, kind of unfair advantage.
Zaha Hadid, who won. But then it was scrapped in 1995 due to a lack of financial support. So after all that effort and divine.
Yes.
Yes, but do you know?
Who was supporting at the National Lottery Fund. So you go in and you buy your Lotto tickets and and then you lose. But at least you're building a cultural centre somewhere. Yes, yes.
You're building and I. An iconic cultural centre.
Built, built off the back of the losses of thousands of gambling addicts. Maybe.
That one fell through. But then the vision was reimagined. We had a reimagining as the Wales Millennium Centre, and I think the design.
Not only even now, if there's millions of people in Wales. Hmm. Yes. Well, it was going. It was originally gonna be called the Cardiff Bay Opera House, but the Welsh or the Wales? Sorry, the Wales Millennium Centre is. Just much more grandiose a title I think.
Yes. So Y so Y2K. Yeah, that's the future. Yes. The future, even though we're already in the Millennium. But.
Wouldn't wouldn't you agree? Well, we're past Y2K, so we're just kind of rub. The the I don't know. How do you rub the nose? Of a date. Into something or or rubbing somebody's nose into a date. Ohh, just please move on.
They they described the design as as a neck, as an upside down necklace or something. I don't know. It's got a it's got.
Is that what it looks like? Well, it's a big it looks like a big bronze ring with all these words inscribed into it.
An on it's got an odd shape.
Sort of a.
Sort of a semicircle kind of thing. Jonathan Adams this time round and they use local Welsh materials. Slate is popular in Wales, as is timber steel.
Hmm. Yes, who designed it? I was gonna say, like what? Seashells and seaweed?
Natural resources.
Yeah. Yeah. No, they they're too busy throwing them and using those weapons.
Price perhaps?
Not without controversy. These things always have a bit of controversy because it cost a lot. It was.
Yes, of course. Well, everyone's always critical of big architectural pieces and anything to don't spend money on the arts. No, we'd rather all be miserable, yes.
The arts I've spent so much money in the world. 100 and €106 million and they felt maybe that money could be spent on other pressing social needs in in Wales.
Hmm.
But supporters argued that it would boost tourism and serve as a cultural beacon. Did you visit this cultural beach? Ohh no. You would have been there. You would have been over there before it. Opened. Ohh you just missed out.
I I just missed it. I didn't really go to Cardiff. We kind of passed through Cardiff and ended up in Swansea, which is just not, not Cardiff. Let me tell you.
But cyclus cyclus. So we had the grand opening which we heard before. There's lots of people there, the Prince of Wales. He was there lending support mix of Welsh music and opera, celebrating the nation's rich.
Yes.
Hmm.
Yeah, Chuck went. Charlie was. Yep, Yep.
Cultural heritage. There were singers, there were. Dances. I'd like to see. The valleys, the musical at the Wales Millennium Centre.
Ohh yeah, that'd be pretty good. I don't think you'd be able.
Remember that show.
To understand a word of it.
It was like Geordie Shore but.
Worse, much worse. Yeah, they're pretty loose units. The Welsh. When they when they get, they get a skin full. Let me tell you, if you're if you're national dish is the snails that clean fish tanks and warmed up seaweed, you better be good at something.
That's even possible. Really are. Yes.
Let's get into. When Napster or the dude that made Napster?
Well, the dude that the music industry hated, you know? Yes, Sean fanning.
For making that stuff, yes, the the Antichrist. According to the music.
Hey.
Industry on the 3rd of December, he goes legit to legit to quit.
Really.
He has launched a new company at this time aimed at legitimising peer to peer networks and helping record labels make money from file swapping, using digital rights management. So basically a legal solution for this online sharing of music.
So this is just music distribution over the Internet rather than.
A legal version of Napster.
Putting CD's into stores you could well that, but I mean, hasn't iTunes came out like last year or early this year? I'm pretty sure it was last year. It's almost a year old iTunes, probably older, maybe two years old, so.
Hmm.
Yes, yes, yes.
Way to miss the boat, Sean Fanning.
This company called Snowcap.
Hmm.
It was actually formed in 2002, during the final days of the bankruptcy proceedings for Napster, but then didn't launch until a.
Right.
Couple of years. Later. So this week, back in 2004, it was more about the digital rights management as opposed to just paying for music. On the Internet. So what had allowed musicians and record labels to do was go into the system.
Hmm.
Find the songs that they held copyright to on the Internet and claim them electronically. That's mine. My song. You can't have that. And then what they could do is set the terms on pricing so.
All right. Yeah.
I feel. Like this is kind of a Creative Commons sort of thing as well. So once they claim their song, well, they could also upload the song. And already have claimed it. They could then set the parameters in the terms of use. So maybe $0.99 for a track. Or you could listen to it for five times for free, and then you have to.
Sure.
Day or you get it free all the time. As long as you promise to buy tickets to my concert or you can't have it at all. So. They would set. The price and the terms around their music.
It sounds a bit horist.
Being honest, it sounds a little bit trademarked as well a little bit. Boring, but it.
Yeah. How how does how how would you even police it?
It used a technology called audio fingerprinting, which apparently monitors Sonic characteristics of music files so it could tell who owned. Music file and then introduces this digital rights management.
Really.
So it's like, oh, that, that sounds that that drumming is so bad, it has to be Lazo, Rick, and this must be a Metallica song. Is that?
Right. Well, that singing is so good and Welsh, it's Tom. Jones.
It must be Tom Jones and Tom said. Yeah, that's not unusual.
Sure.
It was initially hailed as a potential saviour for the music. Because we're having a lot of things leaking. So yeah, sure, we've sure we've got iTunes, but we've still got all these leaks happening. M&M's album was leaked a few weeks ago, remember?
Ohh Sean Fanning the Messiah with music, yeah. That's right. And you had to rerecord the songs, and they're all a bit.
He was. Very. Upset. And then he had and did crap songs, and then we all had to suffer.
Yeah. I.
Yeah, and it partnered, it partnered with, I think the record companies were actually the ones that were really happy because they could see a way to make money out of it because they were the ones that were losing a lot of money. Obviously, at this point in time. And they also partnered with my space to help independent artists sell their music directly to fans. Remember, you could buy music through my space.
Right. But you could, but you could also have your top five in Myspace, which effectively was advertising music to your friends, so they liked it, yeah.
And it was a lot of. Yes, there are a lot of. There are a lot of artists, though, that got their start on Myspace without having a record label. Remember, was it like Lily Allen? There was quite a few of them.
Yes, yes. Yeah, Lily Allen is probably. The most famous example. Of that I would suggest, yeah.
Yeah, but that was a way for them to. Hold the rights to their music, but also sell it because independent artists, I don't think at this time we're being able to do anything with.
Yeah.
ITunes.
So they're like thinking ohh, Sean. Sean Fanning is music industry. Jesus music industry. Jesus. Yes, yes.
He's a hero, that a hero comes along. Save is going to save us all. The ultimate goal for the company was to licence the technology to file sharing services with kind of an underlying back end tech which would enable this legal file sharing and blocking content and artists that didn't want to share.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Any of their music, it had a promising start.
Yeah. No, but a tank.
There was **** we thought he was the Messiah. Universal Music signed up with him. Myspace signed up with him.
He did and certainly didn't. There's no no water turned into wine. Didn't you know? Walk on water didn't heal the sick. No loaves. No. There's a few loaves. But they were all.
There's no loaves, no fishes.
Basically what happened it didn't work.
And it was competition from iTunes and other stores that made it quite difficult for it to establish itself.
But he he wasn't first. That's the thing. iTunes had pretty much cornered the market, and it wasn't the. Thing I mean.
But he was offering something different. He was more about the rights management behind it and.
Right. Well, that was the start. Up right.
People being able to claim their music and set their own terms and conditions.
And you know. Maybe he's a he's a bit ahead of his time.
But that's it. Like, think about Spotify and Soundclouds.
Yes. Yeah.
And that's where you've got these platforms where artists do have the rights for their music.
Band camp, same sort of thing. So maybe he was just a little bit ahead of the curve.
And it was just confusing. Like he threw digital rights in there. We all got bored. And went. That's too hard.
And just like Jesus, he was crucified. He actually talks about it. He talked. That's what. That's that grab about being in startup purgatory.
The worst thing in the world as an entrepreneur that I've experienced is something we kind of call startup, you know, purgatory. It's where your business is kind of operating. You've got existing commitments, you've got employees you've got. You know you've got something that's running and operating, but isn't quite what you would hope it would be. And so I've been there. My second startup, something called Snowcap, was a digital music company, and it was a company that basically found itself in that state, this sort of purgatory where you've got friends you're working with, you've taken investment, but. You've kind of lost the sense that it would. It would become that great big success that you had hoped. So you know, the one of the best ways to figure that out or to ensure that it doesn't happen is picking a really big market, an area where there's a huge opportunity to explore potential business opportunities and. Experiment and you know if you are successful, there's, you know a you know a wealth of opportunity there.
No, you say great advice from music Jesus.
Or do you think maybe everyone just faked him out and was still angry with him for Napster and pretended to like his idea to for him to go ohh everyone likes it, and then they all faked him out?
Well, nobody was angry. You gotta remember. No. At the time. No, no, no, no. At the time, nobody was angry at him for Naps. That everybody loved Napster. The only people that were angry at him for. Napster was musicians, and then they got scared because people like Lars Ulrich spoke out about him and then got lampooned and humiliated publicly and it just didn't go well for him was like, hey, the millionaires are complaining because people are taking their money and it's, but it's still their intellectual property. They're still created it, you know.
Then.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
Mike. So I I don't know, but they so they got acquired by another company, didn't they?
Yeah, a meme I think, which was a social network site focused on music streaming, which then?
Yeah. Yeah, but that, that tainted within a year, didn't it?
Shut down in. 2009 So then that was effectively the end of snow. Cap.
He's done.
He's gone on to do something else, though, hasn't. He the Napster he.
Sean fan. Ohh yeah, he's always.
What did he do? Was he PayPal or something?
I don't know what he was.
I think you're right. I think no, PayPal was Elon Musk, but he he's been.
Not. We've done something else.
Yes, I mean he got involved with Electronic Arts and Facebook. And.
I ohh Yep.
He had some other company called Helium Systems. I believe these stupid names that don't mean anything, so I don't understand what, like snowcap like? What does that mean? What does that mean? I don't understand what that means. But you know what he did do? He was in a Volkswagen commercial. That was that was.
Right, as as him starring as himself or.
Was directed by Roman Coppola, who is Francis Ford Coppola's son. Yes, he poked fun at his file sharing past.
Right.
So at least he, you know, he concedes the fact that, well, he's one of those dudes that can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. You've gotta admire his tenacity, if anything.
Ohh OK, take a joke.
That's true.
Ohh, let's go from stealing music to talking about music.
Yes, let's chat. Music. Do you wanna know the Jake 1 update? No, we'll save that. Save it for the end of music.
Oh, OK alright. I think I want to know that. No. OK, we'll wait till we'll. Wait till the end, alright?
So exciting UK number one is still girls allowed with. I'll stand by you.
Aye.
But.
It just couldn't hold a candle to the presenters version, I maintain, but well, I maintain I maintain, though it's like I think it's every time I hear it, I think about rescuing.
The charity stop it charity because as monetary good cause.
Pets.
Yeah, that would be a. Good pet rescue run, yeah.
Yeah, I agree. Won't let nobody hurt you. I'll stand by you.
Yeah, I've been watching a guy that rescues dogs from, like, a pound. What his name is, and he goes and sits in the in the pounds like Cage with the dogs. I'm very invested. I wish I could remember his name.
Oh.
Yeah.
I can't deal. I can't deal because yes, I know.
Oh no, he's really. Good. He's he's got he ends up, keeps it. He ends up keeping a lot of the dogs they're supposed to be rocky. Ricky, Ricky something.
I've seen the guy that you're talking about. I've seen the guy that you. Yeah, I've seen the guy that you're talking about. And I I actually get really emotional and I start.
Yeah, it is emotional, isn't it?
To get hot. Flushes and I do think it's menopause, but it's. I can't deal. I can't cope with it.
Yeah, it's hard, isn't it?
Yeah, it makes me.
Sad. No, but he he get he he's doing well with. I think it's.
It makes me happy, sad, happy, sad, sad. I don't know what this is.
He's doing well with pumpkin and he's actually gonna make pumpkin a dog friendly pumpkin pie. That's how good that one's.
Pumpkin the dog, right? Yes, that's good. If if you've got a problem. Actually, just a very just. We put a pin in this for a SEC. A hot tip from me. If you've got a problem with your dog and your dog.
Going. Hmm, yeah.
Ricky.
Hmm.
The same feed a pumpkin won't do it anymore.
Yes. He never likes to eat pumpkin the second time round.
No, they just don't like pumpkin seed. I don't know why. It's just a dog thing. Interesting. You gotta understand.
I wonder why?
It's. All right, let's go.
I'm George W Bush and I approve this message.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Yes, he too does not like eating pumpkin the second time around. Let's go to the US top five.
That's where he eats anyway.
5.
You should let me love you. Let me be the one you give you everything you want.
4.
Over. And over again. I can't keep pimps in the crib.
Mom, drop it like it's hot. Drop it like it's hot. Drop it like it's hot. When the pigs try to get at you, park it like it's hard. Park it like it's hot.
We haven't seen each other in a while, but you will.
There's some churn in the charts, including a new addition.
Is it are you hearing anything there that you'd like to add to our playlist of thought? It was in 2004 or was in different in 2004, but have since changed my tune playlist.
Uh. Well, I'd probably put. I'd definitely put drop it like it's hot in there.
You didn't like that at the time, no.
It just, it's just it's not metal.
See, I wasn't gonna put that in there because I. Did like it at the.
Ohh so it's it's the prerequisite.
Time. Stuff that it's.
Of not liking it at the time.
Things that you didn't like it or were indifferent towards at the time.
I don't. I. Don't think that there's.
But now I'm like, yeah, that's alright.
Yeah, there's nothing in there that's kind of. I I think redeeming maybe maybe my Boo, but that would only because that song would only get over because of Alicia Keys. Yeah, see.
There's probably too many words for the male of a playlist. It's like the case. It's just, it's just it's handy. It's handy. I'll show.
I'm probably putting yeah, by usher in that on that Spotify list just because I had. I've had to hear it so many.
You didn't.
Times since we started doing the podcast this week.
And it was. It was great at the Super Bowl and Luna came out. But no, no. OK.
That was exciting, but no, not not really. I don't. I don't. And I especially not that new one, so.
You please do.
Let's recap then. So what's not entering up? At least my Boo. I sure. And Alicia Keys. I don't think we put that in there cause that's we don't want handsy.
No good.
Usher in the playlist just.
Very happy for that not to. Be on the list.
Touching up all the songs.
Hmm.
Drop it like it's hot. Yep. #2 over and over. No, I like that. At the time we. Can't put. That in the list? Yep. That's Nelly and. Him.
Tim McGraw.
Lose my breath. Destiny's Child still don't like that. So we'll keep that out. New entry, which is also not going into the list. Judging by your reaction. Let me love you.
By Mario.
You should let me love you. Pay me good love and protection. Make me your selection. Show you the way. Love. Suppose.
So that just sounds like everything else to me. Everything else.
That's very early 2. Thousands R&B, isn't it?
I'm I. I was gonna say.
Hmm.
Neo.
Interesting you say that because Neo wrote the song.
Well, see, now I need to have a shower because I don't believe I got that right. I feel so dirty.
You're well versed in Neo. Wow. Ohh, Neo fan right over there. Mario's the one that had the song. Just a friend, remember? But you say he's just a friend. Yeah, that one. The friends owned one that you hate. You hated that also. You hated that in 2000 and.
Yuck.
Ah. Well.
2-2 years ago.
It's a long list. It's hard to remember.
Or was it last year? Sure, I don't know, but is that Mario? Yeah. And you made jokes about Mario and Luigi. Yes, that Mario. So that Maria. Yes. Not that Mari, but that Maria that you made.
All from it's me. You're Mario. Yeah. I was going to go there. Again. But that's.
A joke about.
I choose not to show my casual racism on the podcast this week, so I'm not. Gonna go there.
OK, good. That's the lead single from Mario's second album turning points written, as you pointed out by NEO and Scott Storch of Lean Back fame.
Ohh.
Hmm.
Don't dance. They just pull up their pants and do the Rockaway.
That is being added to the was indifferent in 2004, but now I've changed my tune playlist.
I can handle that being on there. I can. Yeah, I can handle that. Really.
Absolutely. That's gonna. Be like the feature track. Yes. OK, they are revealed in an interview this year in fact. That hay didn't think.
That he was the one and he's actually figured out how to get everyone out of the matrix.
That would be good. He didn't think that Mario was the right performer for the song that he wrote, cause he felt that it was too mature. The content of the song was too mature for an 18 year old singer, cause Mario was only 18.
Really.
Yeah, that's a that's a. Great cross crossover. I am gonna go down the video game now imagine if Neo goes into the matrix and then has to fight Mario. Just saying that could be really.
Which Neo is fighting Mario Neo the songwriter or Neo the Keanu?
Oh, sorry. No, I'm getting my neos crossed.
I hate it when. That happens. It's dangerous.
Yeah, sorry, rookie mistake. I feel so embarrassed. Carry on.
Well, that's all I had to. Say about that.
So what was it he considered the songs content too mature for an. 18 year old singer.
He wasn't gonna give it to Mario. He's like, well, no, you don't have the lived experience to let me love you. That's too mature. Too much life experience is required for those lyrics. But then he did give it to him.
Because he's only 18. Only 18.
And it went well. So.
What? Didn't.
Neo 80s fat fighting words.
Really. Would you give that to him with a bunch? Of. Magazines, you know, read that. You'll figure it out. Start singing to the magazine.
Right.
Alright. Number one, in Australia we have a new song.
Right. Struggling knowing.
Definitely going on the thought it was, it all was indifferent in 2004, but now really.