T minus 20
The year is 2005... Anakin turns to the dark side, YouTube makes its debut and we’re all couch-jumping for Maria, McDreamy and The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo…
T minus 20, rewind to this week in history 20 years ago with Joe and Mel.
T minus 20
High School Musical debuts and accidentally launches a generation of theatre kids
Rewind to 22 Jan 2006 to 28 Jan 2006
🎤 High school musical rewires your personality
Disney drops a made-for-TV movie and accidentally creates a global tween religion. Zac Efron becomes your entire emotional support system, Sharpay steals every scene and ‘We’re All In This Together’ is suddenly being belted at school assemblies by kids who previously refused to raise their hand in class.
🕵️ Fake rock, real spies
Russia accuses British diplomats of spying with… a hollow rock full of electronics. Agents crouch to ‘tie their shoelaces’ while secretly uploading data. The UK denies everything. Everyone pretends this is normal diplomatic behaviour and not the plot of a rejected Bond film.
📧 Spam king gets wrecked
AOL sues notorious spammer Christopher Smith for clogging inboxes with miracle pills and ‘urgent business proposals’ and wins US$5.3 million. The CAN-SPAM Act finally swings into action and somewhere a Hotmail inbox breathes a small exhausted sigh of relief.
🦷 Grillz go mainstream
Nelly’s Grillz hits #1 in the US, officially turning dental jewellery into a cultural event. Suddenly everyone knows a guy who can get them ‘done cheap’ and your cousin is Googling ‘gold teeth near me’ on dial-up.
🧛 Leather, lore and Kate Beckinsale
Underworld: Evolution rules the US box office with slow-mo gun fights, ancient vampire drama and industrial blue-grey vibes while Memoirs of a Geisha enchants Australia with sweeping tragedy, Oscar buzz and very complicated cultural conversations.
🎬 Disney buys the future
Disney announces it’s buying Pixar for US$7.4 billion and accidentally sets up the next decade of Ratatouille, WALL-E, Up, Inside Out and Frozen. Bob Iger chooses the smartest cheat code in media history.
📚 The book everyone pretends to like
The Hostage tops the charts and delivers 700 pages of government meetings, diplomatic intrigue and one-star reviews begging for mercy. Thrilling if you love bureaucracy.
Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.
Transcript is generated automatically.
The year is 2006. We head to the hills and learn reality. Unscripted, your Sony Cyber shot uploads 462 blurry regrets. A Facebook book makes everything complicated and twitters like cool story. You've got 140 characters now. T -, 20 rewind 20 years with John.
2000 seats.
I want to forgive.
You I hate this song. I wanna forget you.
You have no style or some profession.
Ah, new intro. Same old us it's t -, 20, the podcast that jumps back exactly 2 decades to relieve the news, music, movies, TV, tech, and pop culture that shaped the moment, the stuff that dominated the charts, clocked your inbox, rewired your brain, and absolutely did not age quietly. With the couple of hosts that refused to age quietly, also Joe and Mel. Hello, Mel. Yes.
My knees give me away every time I'm trying to sneak up on someone. Definitely not quiet the old joints. Yes, hello, everybody. Each episode, we rewind the clock, unpack your biggest stories of the.
Just clicking and clacking.
And ask the important questions like why was this everywhere? How in the heck did we survive this era, and should it maybe have been left back in 2006 because we are in 2006 deep into January this week?
That's right. And Speaking of why was this everywhere? This is this week's big stories.
That we.
Didn't really beat mix that very well with the background music, but you get the you.
Get the idea? Uh, it was a moment. It takes over your living room. Disney accidentally creates a generation of. Theatre High school music.
Cool.
A former aide to ex British Prime Minister Tony Blair has admitted that the UK did use a device hidden in a fake rock in Moscow to spy on Russia.
Ohh, usually we just. Use them to store house keys, but no. Fake crock uses to spy on the Russians this time 20 years ago.
What? See what?
You grill. Yep. Yep. You grill. Now he convinces the world this week that dental jewellery is actually a personality.
Oh. I've never understood grills.
You've. Never understood well.
Them. No, I I think they'd be really uncomfortable.
Probably for the best. I don't know that you could rock a grill.
And I don't know how you'd go doing things like eating flaky pastry, but well, look, we'll get into the finer details of that. I mean, this is what you've got to look forward to you if you're joining us for the first time.
To be honest.
Yes, that would be a bit of an adventure.
Welcome. There's a little taster for you.
Finer details of the ripping CD's was approached today in our household.
Thanks.
Ohh yes, new.
Obsession for the child is retro technology.
Yes, we, we. Did a little bit of cleaning over the brake as you tend to do you accidentally open a cupboard and bam 3 days of cleaning? Yes.
Yes.
Yes. Well, well then you realise how much E waste you accumulate and this. Has become very. Interesting as well because I think I've got about four generations of iPhone just sitting in drawers and stuff, you know? Yeah. Well, they I know cause they're so pretty.
And you've also got the boxes. You never throw the boxes out.
I have started to throw the boxes out, but there's that and then I think, yeah, we dug up the old the old laptop was around. We found the old laptop from 20. Yeah, yeah.
There's so many. 20/10/2010 yeah, and I had a spicy pillow. Is that what it's called, the spicy pillow?
Yeah, it's called a spicy pillow where the battery inside it had actually expanded, and the next step for that is an explosion.
Yes.
But I think that's very rare. Anyway, I think it's fun sight. I took it out and disposed of it at the correct facility. The the waste management facility with all the E waste. And I look honestly, I think they probably just throw those batteries in landfill anyway. I mean, well, I don't know.
We took it out before it exploded.
Yes, yes.
Yes. No they don't.
I don't know. I'm sceptical, but that's because I'm.
Anyway, anyway, it still works if you plug it.
An old wowser.
In doesn't need a.
Yes.
Battery you can still plug it into the PowerPoint and he's just had a well over time. So sticking around and pressing all the buttons. But he also has my old iPod Nano.
Yes. Yes, it's quite wonderful really. Putting all of this stuff that was otherwise rubbish to good use. It's like, why did I invest in the latest generation of game console and stuff for this child when they're perfectly happy just rummaging through our E waste?
And.
Yes.
So today we had the idea of why don't we hook the nano up to the old laptop and maybe put some.
Yeah.
Music on it. And he has. Just had a delightful time learning how to RIP CD's. It was such a proud moment for me when he put his.
Yeah. Yeah, but, well, it's it throws back to physical media as well. And yes, it was very proud to see.
CD in and he ripped it.
Like explaining a what a CD was was was the first problem and then ripping it as opposed to burning it.
Yes, we had to learn the. Difference between those?
The vernacular.
Two. But also we thought we'd be able to just open up the old iTunes and move the music across. Yes to the nano. But no you can't. It has to be music that you own. So we've gone back to the old days of where you've got to take it off.
Well and and.
Day put it into iTunes and then.
And then move it under the device. That's right. Old school. It it. That is pretty great. But it also kind of shows how much it sucks not being able to have physical media because unless you have well and it's not just physical media, if you do purchase these tracks through, I believe whatever platform you can probably transfer your purchase tracks to.
Move it across. That was wonderful.
Whatever MP3 player you you desire, I guess it's not just.
Yeah.
An apple thing, although we do play so many of Steve Jobs's keynotes throughout the course of this podcast, that might as well be sponsored by them. And, you know, maybe they could throw us a bone and actually put us in the featured section of the podcast and things would really take off anyway. But so so the, the, the, the digital, unless you purchase it. The digital rights management means that you can't just like if you you can stream, you can stream it, but you can't down umm. And store it anywhere, which kind of sucks.
Yeah. So tomorrow we have to go to the tip because there's some rubbish blocking the CD cupboard and he needs to RIP some more CD's. So it's a a trip to the tip. No E waste just other rubbish so that we can then get into the CD cupboard.
Yes. To get into the seat. Each other. Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
It's such a. Foreign concept to anyone who is a generation below ours, like physical media, it's just unbelievable.
Yes.
All right.
And what was he? Ripping, he was actually ripping a a Metallica CD to me so that.
Ohh yeah.
Was a bit of. A full circle moment, wasn't it?
Yeah. Don't tell Lars. It's the hatches, matches and dispatches clue. The segment at the end of the show. Same show different year, same show. We haven't changed much about the format, just the intro and a few other bits. So this segment still exists, we figured.
The recorder still stands. How could you replace that?
Well, we figured a we spared no expense with that little piece of recorder music. I mean, and most of it was your time learning how to play the.
Everyone would be so disappointed. I've licenced it to the. Podcast.
Theme tune from Entertainment Tonight if anyone's interested, so there's that and then you know, if it's not broke, don't fix it. But you know the the the other adage I was looking at is.
Yes.
Like you can't keep doing the same thing over and over again and expecting the same result. And I'm like, whatever. I don't have time to really invest in that. So we're just. Gonna.
Keep you on that. We actually listen. It's a good results.
Right. The same different year, OK, hatches, matches and dispatches clue. We're gonna give you a clue now for a segment at the end of the show. Celebrity. That was. Matched a wedding, a celebrity wedding and 1/2 of the wedding party said this.
Ah yes.
There is no way we're going to do anything that is going to it'll harm, you know, the name or of my father or my father, period.
That's out of context. That wasn't necessarily in reference to the.
Wedding. Ohh, good. Hey, how's wondering what Father might have been doing at the?
No. No, no, no, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. It's out of context. But you'll find out more about who that is at the end of the show.
That's good.
Yeah.
Let's start with some news, shall we? On the 22nd of January. And I'm I'm gonna. Go out on.
Absolutely same format, different year.
A limb here and say this is this. Is this is my favourite story of the year so far. I love these kind of stories. A spy story. I love spies of espionage, but.
Ohh good. Little bit of. It's so sexy.
This is some. Budget ESPN. This is innovations espionage, so I love it even more.
Espionage via the innovations catalogue.
Yes, 22nd of January 2006. Russian state TV airs footage accusing British diplomats of spying on Russia. Using a hollow fake rock, what a metaphorical rock, an actual rock placed on a street inside the rock with some electronics, a transmitter, memory storage. I'm going to say maybe a USB or something like that, or a flash drive, and also a power supply.
Yes. Right, yes. Was there a key? Tell me there was a key. Ohh, come on.
No keys, no keys, unfortunately. Well, maybe there was. Maybe there was, or maybe there wasn't enough space for the, I don't know.
Have to be a key.
Selling dip or we get into the house safe spot for the.
Key agents would walk past, they'd Crouch down ohh. Better time a shoelace, and then.
Oh really?
Widely wirelessly upload and download data into the rock. There's a data rock.
Ohh, they're transmitting into the rock.
Yes.
Yeah. So they just needed to be within the vicinity of the rock and set it up via, like Bluetooth or something.
Yes, isn't that wonderful?
Extraordinary. I mean if it because the innovations catalogue, I think you know you could get a shoe horn there which would help you tie your shoelace, but I'm pretty sure that they probably had little toggles, which meant no more shoelaces in the innovations catalogue.
Ohh yes.
So you have your key rock and then your no tie, shoelaces and all of a sudden your whole plan has been just completely thrown off the rails.
********, yes. Hmm, the story was broken by the FSB, which is Russia's main security. Agency and they put it on TV state television. They showed surveillance footage of the shoes, but they also they managed to track down the rock. They found it. They found the rock and they opened it up on camera and showed what was inside. They opened it up and did a live unboxing of the.
Look them tying their shoes next to the fake rock. It's like something out of Monty. Python, isn't it? Yes.
Rock.
They unbox, they unbox the rock.
But for everybody, they unbox the rock. There were maps, there were grainy soap. Nose and of course, had a dramatic narration.
I I feel like, I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, behind the Iron Curtain, there were lots of preconceived ideas of what entertainment would have been like in Russia. Remember, they had on Fast forward. They had good morning Moscow. Well, good. The good morning Moscow, the hippie hippie shake. Can we? Can we still do that? Well, this is but the the, the whole thing.
In Moscow, yeah.
Yes.
No, probably not.
Was that entertainment behind the Iron Curtain may not have been great with what the queuing for bread and the starvation and the cold and and all of these things in Russia.
Hmm.
So maybe the rock was good news.
So they're like tonight on on Russia. TV The Rock and then the people think not. Sean Connery film. Not Sean Connery. Nicolas Cage, not wrestler.
Not the wrestler, not the wrestler either. Not smelling what he's cooking, no.
Actual rock. Dramatic twist, dramatic twist this week. Camera inside rock, which is your which then sounds well.
Yeah, maybe there's, like a rock segment every week and they just bring a different.
Rock, yes, but camera inside. Rock sounds like a wrestler going for a colony. So we don't wanna go there, yeah.
What a night that could be. Dramatic television as well. They said that the high tech stone was absolutely new spy technology. I call BS because I did see that innovations catalogue in like 1992.
New spy technology. Yeah, well, yeah. Well and. Then that wasn't the byline for the key rock. Was it new spy technology? No.
New spy?
No, but the Russians said that this was this was the the guys spies working in the British embassy, spies in disguise as pigeons. No, that's a different form altogether. They were spies. But the cover was that they were working in a diplomatic sense over at the British Embassy in Moscow.
Despise and disgust. Ohh at the. Right.
Yeah, I yes. So the UK were like, well, no, they're just diplomats. Yeah. You don't know how absurd they're rocking. How absurd.
I don't know anything that anything that. We refused to comment. They said no, got nothing to say, nothing to say about this stupid rock.
We refused to comment. No comment, yes.
Yeah.
But later on, they did admit quiet, a bit quietly, that the rock was real, but they did downplay the significance.
Yes. Reality isn't really OK. It was an actual rock, yes. It was rock. But I mean, it was just an insignificant rock and stuff. Transmitting stuff from Bluetooth through the shoelaces to the rock. I mean, there's nothing, nothing really right home about just a rock.
No formal apology, no charges.
Well, of course we're not going to apologise. Apologise for a rock.
That's very, very awkward.
It was very awkward, but the well the The thing is, is even though they denied it, they had to come clean sooner or later.
In an interview with British TV, Blair's former chief of staff Jonathan Powell says the Russians. Right. He described the incident as embarrassing and said the Russians had had the rock under surveillance for some time, he added the Kremlin was holding back their discovery to use it for political purposes. At the time, the UK and Russia were in dispute over Iraq, Chechnya and other diplomacy issues.
Yeah, thanks BBC.
They had the rock under surveillance. I'm just picturing some poor guy sitting in a van with blacked out windows watching the Rock 24/7, Surveillance rocks, surveillance.
Yes. What's your job today? The work experience kid. Are they like? Oh, OK, we have work experienced child coming in this week making.
Watch that rock. Tell us if anything happens. You can watch the rock.
What's the wrong?
So all week he's just at least, and they got something to do for the work experience team.
Why a rock? Well, just asking innovations perfectly into the environment, it avoids direct handovers reduced risk.
Yes.
We were supposed to be discreet, but obviously not.
Yes. Well, I, I mean rock is pretty discrete.
If you Scroll down, I did post a photo.
Once you throw it, I've seen the picture. I've saw the pictures of it. I saw the video.
Did you have a look? At. Picture it. Does look suspiciously like the innovation, wasn't it?
Yeah, it does cause it's like it's. It's it's perfectly formed rock on the top, but. It has a flat base. Yes, like the base is completely flat. So it looks like the rock is like either been embedded in the ground like, you know like those those those stupid marvel lamps that you stick in the wall where it's like Captain America Shields coming out. That's kind of flat and.
Oh.
You just stick it to the wall.
Yes.
Yeah. So that's the rock. It's flat on one side.
Yes, it is very unlock like that is suspicious, isn't it?
For posters, it's just not. It is. That is not very bro. Let's do some. Technology over in the USA, we're going to court for this one technology in court. 1 moment please.
Yes.
Good.
Right. Yeah. Sorry, I just had it took me a while to get there. I'm a bit rusty and you'll shake out the cobwebs new year. Same us. Yeah, a little bit bit sticky. Yeah. So we're going to court. We're talking about spam. Not anything. Well, spam can be sticky. I guess. The Christopher William Smith. The spam king.
As it should be, right?
Ready to go? OK. Something's a little slow.
He gets done. Yeah. I mean, what a great title. Hey, the spam king. He. Well, he got in a bit in a in a bit of trouble, and AOL actually went up against the Spam king after he flat out refused to show up or participate in the case. So they were just like, well, AOL got $5.3 million in damages.
Spam King with a title. Hi, I'm Chris, the Spam king.
+200 and 7087 thousand sorry in legal fees. Under what is called the new can spam act because Smith was blasting millions of spam emails to AOL users that was clogging their inboxes with things like miracle pills mortgages, you won't last 30 seconds.
No, I remember that email. That's a good one.
I remember those videos. Oh, I mean, what subject like when it came time to defend himself in court, he just didn't charge. He didn't chart. No defence, no rebuttal. He just spammed the wrong people. But what is the Cam spam Act I hear you say? Well, I'm glad you asked. Hi.
Hi, I'm Colleen Robbins, an attorney at the Federal Trade Commission. Like many smart and successful marketers, you may use email to promote your company's products or service. Whether you're emailing potential customers or letting your current customers know about your latest offer, the can spam Act establishes guidelines you must follow. For example, the law describes specific information each email must provide, including a way for recipients to unsubscribe, and it spells out penalties for violations.
Yeah. Thank you. See.
Oh.
So that that's a good act cause I love the unsubscribe button. Sometimes it's a little bit hard to find, but that's my New Year's resolution. Unsubscribe, unsubscribe.
It is a good act, but I think a lot of the a lot of the stuff that you know, have you opened your spam folder recently and just had a look at some of the stuff that's in there. It's extraordinary, yeah.
Ohh, it's amazing some of the subject lines. Some are very convinced. Thing though, I can't go in there too much because I'm sure one day I'm accidentally gonna go ohh. That seems legit.
Yell yes. So. So well, I think it was a landmark case as far as the Internet service providers being able to get control back over inboxes a little bit. And and it's sort of like, you know, well the the email is not so much the Wild West anymore. I I think that they probably like just an act probably didn't do the job. Like it's more about.
Hmm.
Plots and filtering and and using artificial intelligence and stuff to to actually determine what spam is the. These days, although it is, it is against the law and you know, I mean, heaven forbid we do anything on the Internet that's against the law. That's why. That's why you gotta. That's why you gotta own the physical media before you RIP the CD people. Yes, exactly.
Hmm.
Exactly. So. We've got a list of. Some of the top subject lines from the early 2000s spam influx from from our Spam King Chris.
Wonderful. Yes.
Let's see if you got any of these. Are we ready?
As in, if I got any of these or if I would have been interested in.
Any of them? Well, either or if you saw this in your subject line, or maybe if you would have clicked the link.
Let's recite them, but let's do it like media watch style, because I love doing those media watch style watch service. Let's do a couple of them at work once and.
Oh. Some dramatic reenactments in subject lines. OK, and and listen along and see if you fell for any of these or received any.
Really enjoyed it. OK, yeah.
Of these in your Hotmail back in the day.
Sounds.
Good.
Lose 30 lbs in 30 days. Doctors hate this.
One weird trick to boost male performance.
Three $500 casino chip no deposits.
Refinance your home today. Bad credit, OK?
Work from home earn $5000 a week.
Online poker beat the system.
Urgent business proposal.
With this to 10 people or your account will be deleted.
Virus warning, delete everything immediately.
Every year.
Your account has been flagged last.
Chance to claim your free.
Offer you qualify open immediately.
Important notice from customer support.
This is not spam. Please read. It's music time. Yes, Mel. Yes. This. Is more your area of expertise than mine, so please lead the way.
We'll start with the number one here in Australia this week, 20 years ago run. It Chris Brown.
OK.
Mm-hmm. Number one in the UK, a song called. That's my goal by Shane Ward. Not warn, not Warney Shane Ward.
No. That's my goal.
I'm here to win your heart and soul. That's. My.
Please don't be an idol, wouldn't he? Sounds very idolish.
I know I don't know I. Got distracted and I forgot to get some information. But that does that does.
That's all right.
Feel like someone who's won a competition. And put out.
Yeah, agreed. That's that's not that feel to it, yeah.
The single the next week, doesn't it? Yeah. We'll go with that. We'll go with that Australian idol. No, sorry, UK idol winner Shane Ward there with that's my goal.
Maybe. Before you get back terminal facts, check you, Simon Powell protege.
UK's Got Talent. Fear factor UK. Pop stars. Well, I'm sure we've covered it in there somewhere. Let's go to the.
Yeah, maybe. Possibly.
US.
Photograph. Eyes. And what the hell is on you? We said. Nice. Yeah.
Still want it? 1.
He queer what he queer Robert, jury, storyteller. Make me a grill.
Feel so ahead of the curve cause. I've been listening to this song for the last year. And 1/2 at the gym. Ohh right. Though it was #1.
It's 2006, yeah.
In. I. Did for a second just then listening. Going ah man of. The game new to me, sure.
Feel.
Let's recap. Shall we photograph Nickelback, let's.
Come back back.
Every time I do it makes me. Laugh.
Good for you.
Don't forget about us, Mariah in at #4. Yeah, the new entry was that the last year.
Yes.
I thought was in last year.
No, I I think she's. Yeah. Well, it's nice. Forgot I I don't think. I think that we belong together was the one. The other one. You're. Yeah. Thank.
Yeah, well. Did. Forgot about them.
Probably thinking of.
I thought that one as well. She's got it in the button.
No, I think it's no, I had to go and find it to put it in the button, yes.
Ohh OK, I thought if you had it in a separate button it just screamed that we've done it before.
No, no. I feel like don't forget about us as a new release for Mariah.
OK, well, well, it's. I'm not talking about that at the moment. We'll we'll talk about that at some other.
Yeah.
Time check on it by Beyoncé and Slim so.
Are they? It's been gone. I think it happened during summer programming. So yeah, check on it. Ohh.
Ohh OK, that's yes, that's also another new entry. Slim Thug. I don't wanna talk about that either right now.
Yeah, it's, it's. Yeah, I don't. I don't have that. But we could listen to, OK. Well, we could do, mate. And just pretend that I was doing something that was of value.
We've already talked about we already talked about Shane the. Yeah, yeah, run it. Chris Brown #2, which we've obviously that was #1 when we left off. When we said goodbye for the year he was. And he's fallen back and says #2.
So.
Yes, it was. But he he was doing quite well for himself was before the incident. With Chris Brown, I believe, yeah. Yes.
Ohh yes, it's long before that new number one, though grills this is what I do. Want to talk? About Nelly your feet. All wall and I wrote Ellie and Kip, but it's actually Ali Gipp. Yes, GIF GIF is Allie's last name, not a third party.
Allie, GIMP. Not Ali. Is it our or is? It Ali GIMP no Ali. Or Ali Jeep.
No ally is the.
OHS the cheek. Ohh the OK.
You. You grew. You, you, you.
Please me, Jack. Yes, come.
OK, that one.
At a hotel comedy.
No. They they were big grills in 2006, like that song just shot grills into the mainstream. And I'm not talking about barbecues. I was excited for a while there cause, you know, I'm a fast approaching 50.
Let me see you.
Yeah. Let me see you grill, I thought.
But.
You'd never ask.
Your Webber.
I thought you'd never ask. This is the one I use for hot and fast cooking when I just wanna do some steaks. This is the one I use for low and slow. Yeah.
No, no wrong.
Grill.
Featuring Paul Wall, Allie Gipp and JD, or Jermaine Dupree.
Now I've heard that name before. Do you mean Dupree?
Yeah, producer wrapper.
Just, yeah, pretty cool.
Well.
Back in the day. OK, officially like you. Said officially making dental Julia mainstream cultural event. It did push grills. Beyond hip hop and apparently custom grill makers reported spikes in interest. We started seeing not just rappers wearing grills, athletes, and other.
Yeah.
Influences and celebrities jumped on board and they started just basically fitting them in more chaos.
M.
Ohh you can go and get it, close it at the mall.
Suddenly, everyone knew someone who had a mate who could do them on the cheap. Gotta. Yeah. I've gotta gotta mate. You could do you.
It's like going to the chemist to get your ears pierced and you could go and go. Do those fly by night. People would do a grill. What is it? What is it like? Do they do the plastic thing?
A deal on a. Grill. Yeah.
Like when you're getting fitted for a mouth guard.
Ohh like when I got my mouth guard at the dentist. That's very. That's you. And you feel trapped. Your teeth feel like they're trapped.
Yeah. Is that how they do? It doesn't taste good.
I feel.
I feel like the process has probably changed since I I don't. I feel like it wouldn't be that difficult to get fitted for a mouth guard. All the gruel these days, I feel like technology's probably come a long way. I mean, I've never been in the market for a grill. I know back in the 80s, like and in the 70s, no, it was just like it was.
Since Nelly. It's not as invasive to get the brain.
Fever.
Ohh.
People would have their their teeth filled with like the old platen. They cap their teeth with gold and things like that. So you'd see a tooth with a. Bit of a. Gold cap on it or something like that.
I think that was just how they did feelings, my grandmother. Had one of those. And it certainly wasn't a grill.
I thought it was a symbol of status.
No, no, that was just how they did the feelings.
It's like not only have you chipped your tooth, but you are. You are so reckless that you've chipped your tooth and you are. But you are also flamboyant and you will cap it with some gold.
But he now pimp.
Was silver depending on where you sit on the social hierarchy? Yeah.
And it's gotta go with other jewellery. So if your engagement ring. Silver, you probably go with the silver.
That's right. Now it's now it's and then and then all of a sudden, you know, you're using silver to clean your teeth.
Ones you don't wanna mix metals, that's dangerous.
Instead of. So just say turn off.
You know, it just screams copper art, doesn't it?
Instead of what about a copper grill? Yeah, maybe. Well, instead of instead of putting your false teeth in a glass of water, you know, overnight.
That.
That's.
In a village.
Time you're putting your grills in some silvo or something. Oh yeah, I wonder.
Yes.
What the upkeep is he's like I've been asked.
Sail are clear. Get rid of the calcium, lime, and rust deposits, yes.
Yeah, you probably would get a little.
Hmm.
Bit of stuff stuck on there depending on what you eat.
Yeah, well, that's what I was saying it'd be. I I don't understand. Like, you obviously grills. Are are, are. Are something that you do between meals, like you. You wouldn't wear your grill while you were snacking like imagine.
So it's kind of like Invisalign, you take it out.
Yeah, like you're not getting any flaky pastry. I liken it to when, like, kids get braces and then they eat.
To eat and sleep.
No. What have? You had a drink of something really cold.
Yes.
Well, I don't think your grill would get really cold and you'd see, but that would make your teeth cold.
You get a. Grill. Cold. Well, I mean, I imagine if you've got sensitive teeth, then grills possibly aren't for you. Yeah, you know.
Not for you have so many questions about grills, but we should probably say the song. Is actually off. He's. Remember, he did the double albums, sweats and suits.
And once again see when you said when just when you said I've got so many questions about grills as a man. That's approaching 50, gets into things like grilling for a woman to ask, that is is quite arousing.
Not not your grills. Not not.
Not those girls. Yeah, I know. I don't know, but.
Your grills. It's salsa sweat suit. Ohh.
Might just cut that little piece of audio and take it out of context and save it for.
Later, nearly. Third, number one single. Yes. Sold over 6,000,000 copies worldwide. One of the most recognisable hip hop songs of the mid 2000. Since I think it was on the. Sweats part of the sweat suit.
Really. OK, I've just had a a A a flash of absolute brilliance in fact. And I can't believe this has happened in the middle of the podcast, so I'm just gonna share it with you cause I think I might be onto something, but I'd hate for someone to steal this idea now, and I'm just thinking, like superhero team up, like the ultimate collaboration to get the kids to keep their teeth.
Double sealing. OK.
Grace. OK.
Nice and straight. Why don't like Invisalign and the local grills makers? I don't know. Nelly and Invisalign make Invisalign grills.
Grills.
Nelly. Nelly Crossing visa line. Perfect.
There's I'd like to make a complaint. I've bought this Invisalign grill and I can't get it up to temperature. Put a steak on there an hour ago. It's still ice. Ohh, wrong grill.
Do you know people are doing teeth jewels now, though? That's like the new grill these days where they put a little the little thing in the tooth at the moment, dimonte that's really popular.
I feel like that that I feel like that. Was in early 2000s thing as.
It's well, it's popular now. I was reading something the other.
They're bringing him back.
Day tooth jewels are the new itch thing.
Who's Joe?
Instead of grills, yes.
I just. I'd be like, oh, you got a. Something you know when people, that's something you may take and.
And it'd be rough like it would annoy you. It would annoy your tongue. And how does it stay on?
Yeah. Yeah, it would. I don't know. Look, we've moved on to the next segment. We're just gonna have to park that.
Lots of questions, yes, and we should probably shut up because we've got lots of things going on in the entertainment this week. We've got a couple of movies and ohh gosh, buy outs and a debut and all right, let's get into it. Let's start with the number one at the US.
Oh, do we? Oh. Ohh yeah.
Box office underworld evolution.
Some history is based on truth, some on lies. The war between vampire and liking has raged for centuries. I was a loyal soldier in that battle, but I was betrayed. And now my. Own kind have turned against me and I alone hold the key to saving our future.
A powerful and mortal has returned. Marcus is the first true vampire.
It was exiled in the 300 years ago. I was the one who exiled him.
What makes you think we're going to?
Find him now. Vowing to release an unimaginable evil.
There's only one way to defeat him. Find the girl free action.
The only one stands between their eyes.
Through the devastation. Before he was captured.
At the destruction of all mankind.
Through you'll be drowning in the.
Like of people.
Not likens the new race created in the image. Of their makers. No match for him.
We're going to have to work on that.
So.
This is Christ. I didn't know whether if that was ever gonna end, that's pretty much given away the entire film. So now you don't need to see it. Yes. Vampires, Lycans, LY, CA. And it's like werewolves. Yes, I I was very confused with that as well.
There's a lot happening in this. What's liking? I thought that was fungus or barnacles the barnacles are rising up danger.
I was like ohh. Ohh the the the. The the vampires have a Moss problem. It's that the Moss that grows on your roof tiles? Yeah. So I've learned that in science in.
Scraping away. That's it.
Year 7.
I some kind of influence?
Knew it was my science teacher was Irish name was Miss Keeley and she used to talk about Laken Laken and then and she also used to say, sit down a lot. And people used to tease her. It was terrible. Just cause of her Irish accent, which is just goes to show how.
How did she say it? Like it like it? And you're not tastier at all right now.
Horrible children are, but yes. No, it's not. It's not vampires with a problem with Moss. No, they didn't need to bring Kate.
30 this one.
They can sail in to kill the Moss on the roof tiles, so they had probably werewolves. I watched it. It's terrible. It's terrible. Bill Nye was good in it as Victor, the ancient vampire holder. Like I I love Bill Nye and he just Ham acted through the whole thing. I think he realised it was a piece of it as well and just decided to have.
No. OK, good. Did you watch this feel? I feel like before something you'd watch.
Fun with it. It's just it's. Very early 2000s. So we're not getting early. 2002 thousand and six. You know where it's the the chick in the really tight outfit with guns, fighting baddies stuff. And Kate Beckinsale was perfect for that cause. She's gorgeous. But it was. Just trash, you know.
Well, is this vampires are.
Cool at this stage. So it's just, yeah, more vampire crack.
Blade Resident Evil this is before you know, sparklers. Before twilight, so at least at least it had some sort of that traditional vampire thing going for it, and they were at war with the werewolves, and somehow the human race was in danger. It's like, well, you sort it out amongst yourselves. Got nothing to do with ours, but yeah, so there you go.
OK.
Not not Nos. You know where wolves, exactly. And all the vampires really needed to do to get rid of the werewolves was fill up an empty soft drink bottle with water and stick it out on the front lawn to stop them from ******* on any of the trees. Yes, our next movie. Ohh, this is a bit more serious. Memoirs of a geisha.
Thanks for clarifying. Something put on the.
I certainly wasn't born to the life of a geisha.
You are not a servant girl anymore. You are my new protege. Focus on your studies. Music, the art of conversation. The true geisha can stop a man in his stripes with a single look. You are ready. Celebrate this moment. The lights for you, I shall. You she cannot tolerate competition.
Every step I have taken has been to bring myself closer to you. I want to live.
There's don't be compassion to pursue our own distance.
That is the life.
And wars of a geisha.
Memoirs of again, that was #1 in the. Australian box office. Very.
There was a familiar voice in there after watching wickets the other week. Yeah, sounds like hang on a minute. I know that voice.
Yes. Yes, Michelle Yeo is in there as as the the compassionate mentor and then they had Zhang Ziyi, who played Sayuri, who was the the geisha wannabe and and then Ken Wantanabe and Gongyi as well in there, it was directed by Rob Marshall, the same guy that directed Chicago.
Mm-hmm.
And it was that very serious cinema, visually stunning, sleeping emotions and all of that. Sort of stuff based on the book.
Yeah, 1 lot of Academy. Awards, too, didn't.
Yeah, it's based based on the book, but it like it's, I mean, three Academy Awards I think for cinematography and art and costume. I would say that there was a problem with the casting though, and this is sort of Hollywood going well. Those Asians all look the same to us. That's basically what Hollywood's doing because they cast a bunch of Chinese people in the role of Japanese people.
Yeah.
Yeah, not cool.
I don't think that's cool at all and they were criticised for it as well. There are lots of debates about cultural authenticity. Hollywood exoticism. East Asian representation in Western cinema it's a problem, and it's been a problem for a while and I would argue that even in this day and age, I think there there's been a lot more voices about it, a lot more voices about it. I think the reason.
Hmm.
But the diversity, the diversity in Hollywood's always been a bit of.
Yeah, like the recent Hellboy movie, I think was was 1 Daniel Day. Kim ended up playing a particular character in that that was actually had. That was a character that was supposed to be of Asian descent, and they'd cast a white person in the role. And they said that they were whitewashing it. So the guy that was in the role stepped.
An issue?
Side and it doesn't matter, cause the film was a piece of. Garbage anyway, but. You know, there's still conversations happening about that to this day whitewashing, and I think you know if you look at like the Great Wall that Matt Damon film that that got it, that also sparked a a lot of debate about representation of of. East Asia, or Asian characters in Western cinema.
Well, this is actually banned in parts of China as.
The. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. And in Japan, they were just like, oh, we didn't give you. You're not even gonna cast it? The right people in it. Then we we don't. We're not gonna go and watch it.
No.
Yeah.
Over to well, this kind of movie. News. We had a a big acquisition, yes.
You're my favourite deputy. You've got a friend in me. You've got a friend in me. Alien.
Yeah, you can't get in trouble with animated characters and Disney, Disney bought Pixar.
No. Hmm, well, it announced. It was buying Pixar this time 20 years ago on the 24th of January.
Yes. Yes, indeed they, well, they they had already had a pretty long, complicated relationship. Pixar made Toy Story finding Nemo, the Incredibles, Disney did all the distribution. And and I think that their relationship kind of took a bit of a turn in the early 2000s. They weren't kind of friends anymore because Pixar were outperforming Disney, and Disney was all of a sudden becoming or taking a back seat to this new animation. And Disney has always been the king at the forefront of these animated family.
Hmm.
Films, but Pixar? We're just smashing them. And then?
But.
At this point, yes Disney. Needed picks are more than picks. Are listening.
Well then then. But then Disney get a new CEO, Bob Iger, and he's like, we'll we'll sort this out. We'll fix this relationship. And and I think the largest shareholder of Pixar at the time.
Mover and shake them.
The jobs he.
Oopsie was over there. Yes, yes, yes.
Well, he'd work there. That's right. So I think I could put jobs on the board of Disney and all of a sudden, you know, there's a bit of apple energy in the room, you know.
Hmm.
Yeah, a bit of that innovation. Startup culture, big ideas. Umm, minimum viable products iterations.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think it kind of. Helps Disney reinvent themselves, you know, because then you get movies like ratatouille and whole and up and inside out and then and then Disney starts doing things like frozen as well. So I think it was a very smart move in hindsight.
MHM.
It.
It wasn't just them buying the characters, though. It was buying that culture. It was very much akin to the apple kind of.
Culture as well.
So it was changing to that more, I guess, modern ways of thinking and trying new things and experimenting and using new technology, which is something that Disney had fallen a bit behind on.
Yeah.
Yes, and but you say that Disney have fallen behind. But while all of this is happening. We get.
Come on, move it. Let's.
Go east high. Wildcats we are days away from our biggest game. Of the year, basketball is everything.
You are so dedicated.
But when their star player steps off the court.
Any last minute sign.
Up, I'd like to audition.
Miss Davis and on to centre stage.
I'll sing with her.
You'll show the entire school there's something to sing about.
That's some kind of.
The team leader, not a.
Singer, do you ever think maybe I could be both? Where Fred gets.
Which?
Our team is coming apart because you're singing.
Thing School Musical, a Disney Channel original movie.
With.
The sweet loaf of Zack and Cody's, Ashley Tisdale, Zac Efron, Vanessa Ann Hudgens and Lucas Greenville High School.
There you go. That that was a a revelation. A surprise. Nobody thought that High School Musical, which premiered on the Disney Channel as a made for TV movie in 2006, was gonna be.
Hmm.
The thing that rewired pop culture for the year.
No, nobody could have seen no and and I mean, this is, it's not, it's not a movie. It's a made for TV movie. So there's no cinema release. There's no weekly episodes. It's just one TV movie that just accidentally changes the world. They thought they'd get a bit of a tween, hit out of it, but it ended up all to all singing.
Yeah. Uh-huh. People I remember, I remember was like, oh, I was. I was like, I wanted no part.
We all wanted to sing. We all wanted to dance.
Of. It, but I could not believe people were doing flips and twists.
I remember. Everyone got swept up.
But.
Remember, 2 people that I worked with that were around my age, or maybe just a little bit younger, they were into it. And I remember thinking, you know, this is for kids, isn't it? But.
Then I locked it.
No adults got. Into it just as much as the kids. Can you give us a synopsis?
They did look and and. Well, I don't even understand how all this happened, but Troy, who's the jock and the basketball? And Gabriella meet at a New Year's party in the winter break in the winter break, and they're forced to sing karaoke together, and they're pretty good at it. And then back at school, they discover that they both want to audition for the School Musical and because he's a jock, you know, classic fish out of water.
Hmm.
Yeah. Wow.
Oh.
Jokes. Counselling. Short.
Identity crisis social. Outrage Sharpay Evans losing her grip on reality.
I'm assuming Shar Pei must be like the popular girl if he's the shock.
Yes, which is weird because I thought that was a Chinese dog and maybe they'd cast the Shar Pei in some Japanese film. Knowing Denny's a bit tone deaf. Anyway, tryouts, clicks, big finale songs, everyone learns you can be sporty and sing. Isn't it wonderful? And then there was this hit.
Together, we know that we are together. When?
It's just inspiring. I mean this this is the. Launching pad for one, Zac Efron and Vanessa Hudgens.
Yes, yes. So Zach was true. Vanessa was Gabriella and Ashley Tisdale.
Yes, yes. Well, she was Shar Pei. Yes, I mean, this is the thing we're confusing Sharpay with the the lichen with Moss. It's all over the place this episode.
With Shar pei. Ohh very very confusing 7.7 million viewers tuned in for the premiere, which huge for cable TV at the time. Then ratings obviously climbing with repeats because people start talking about it. People start singing, and everyone, what is this? Everyone wants to get across it. Kids memorise for songs.
We'll get in there. Ohh yeah. Well, I think even. The Billboard charts are gonna cop some of it at some stage, too.
Parents didn't mind it. They bought the CD and played it in the car there.
Yeah, and of course.
Were lots of singles that charted.
Well, Disney was like, catchy. Thing you know, let's get on to a sequel, so rest assured, in the following years there will be High School Musical sequels, shopping malls, concert tours, you name it. The tweens have got something to to all get on board with.
It also brought a lot of big, big moments. Big Pop culture moments. Obviously, the relationship it's spilled over into the IRL world. Zach and Vanessa started dating after the filming and became the Disney Power couple of the late 2000s. Paparazzis loved it.
Yes.
Yeah.
Matching outfits on the red carpet. They were just, you know, on your posters. If you smash hits magazine. It was just perfect, wasn't it?
Yes. Well, controversially though Zac Efron didn't sing any of the songs, you know? No, they were. His vocals were dubbed by a singer called Drew Seeley.
Hmm.
Wait, what?
Yeah, that was.
That that sometimes happens like in films like actors or or then lip sync to think so that's nothing new.
Grew. But I think people were. Quite outraged because he was such a heartthrob and. You know, everyone's like full. Package he can sing, he can dance. And he's just beautiful. So Disney, actually. Trained him up.
Yes, he had to prove himself so.
So see you next time out.
It's like OK. If you want the sequel, buddy, you better get out there and sing. Shake your money maker. Yeah, yeah.
Yes. And it really brought musical theatre into the the spotlight at school. Suddenly all the kids, even the jocks, were auditioning for the School Musical. It wasn't the the daggy thing anymore. It was cool to.
Oh yeah.
Be in the musical.
Really though, really likes you. See the rugby captain auditioning for the School Musical? I don't know, although I do like I do like the fact that they're trying to reframe it a little bit, that you can be a jock and a part of the arts community at the same time. And yeah, the physical stuff and the creative stuff at the same time, we don't need to be. And this was.
It was for a little while.
Yeah.
This is a generational thing as well, right? Because like our generation generation X, you're. You had to pick a kind of group to fit into, but I feel like that's kind of changed and it continues to change so much and the kids these days are into everything and that's OK. It's great. I I don't understand any of it. I didn't understand this when it came out. So on to the next segment. Hey. Ohh I did a huge display of intelligence as well. We're gonna talk about books. We didn't read this time 20 years ago.
Well, awesome, we've got. The New York Times. This one's a fiction one. The number one for the week. It's called the hostage by WEB. Or is it web? I think it's WEB dot WEB gryphon.
WEB. Yeah. Good reading, Mel. Let's get some. Let's do this with the US Army Special forces. Major Charlie Castillo is tasked with the discreet mission by the president himself to investigate the death of an American diplomat in Argentina and the kidnapping of that diplomats wife with the woman's children.
Thank you.
The family now at risk, Castillo is running out of time to uncover the connections and true. Behind it all, amidst threats, murder, and a scandal tying the United Nations to Iraq, there is also a lot of money flying around, and some people will do anything it takes to get it or their hands on it, I should say.
Castillo I read that as Castillo.
I really did not. Stick to landing at all, did I?
Why did you change it to Castillo? Is that how you say that name, that is Castillo. Ah, well, I thought Bustillo.
Yeah, that's how Castillo was trying to sound exotic Castillo.
Yes, Castillo Castillo is on the case, mate, let's.
Stereo anyway. Well, how would you pronounce this reviewer's name? There you go. That's good, right?
One star snail crawling storyline.
He's Jerome. He sounds like someone who would eat.
Snails too. Snail crawling storyline textbook like sentences. Every page was a tormenting water by italic paragraphs. There were supposed to be the thoughts. Of all these moronic. Characters in this.
Book. Yeah, Chuck gave it one star. The good it was inexpensive, the bad, everything else.
Rachel cheval. Year 1 star the 1st 130 to 150 pages. I think it meant to be more boring, but she wrote. Were boring, right? And hated the ending. But the middle of the book?
Wasn't bad. That's not something you hear everyday. Is it like in the middle? It was a close to the beginning I enjoyed.
Just the middle.
The middle section.
I hated the first 100 and 32150 pages meant it was OK.
Shan Shan Dizzy gave it two stars. Shan Dizzy did. The language was too foul for my taste and.
I'm like, you've got no.
Classic.
Like Shane Dizzy, I thought that they'd probably like foul language, but anyway. Yeah.
David two stars tedious 700 pages of government meetings, 50 pages of intrigue. Ohh Big Dave's just talking about his job in public service. Yes, he's the book with his day job.
Send.
Services.
Ohh, we're almost there. Just like that. The hatches, matches and dispatches segments. This week we have a wedding, a celebrity who was wed that said this.
There is no way we're going to do anything that is going to it. It'll harm, you know, the name or of my father or my father, period.
Now if you said Lisa Marie Presley. You would be correct. Who did she get married to? Well, if you said Michael Jackson. And knew the Intrade that had already happened. I believe in 2006, Lisa Marie had been pretty scrutinised because of she'd been through it. She's been through it with the whole Jackson Shin. You know, she's Elvis's only child. She's trying to. She's got her father's legacy that she has to kind of bear the weight of, even though she barely knew the guy.
Different wedding. Well, that's what happens when you marry Michael Jackson.
And she's an artist in her own right. So she's trying to forge, you know. A career doing that except with a name like Presley, you're gonna sort of be in the shadows of your dad. And she's been, yeah, a veteran of some very high profile marriages. But on the 22nd of January, she quietly marries a musician and producer by the name of Michael Lockwood in Kyoto, Japan.
Tricky.
Far away from that paparazzi frenzy in Los Angeles, and it's interesting because in 2005, Ellen. Kind of spilled the tea on the engagement.
Can we talk about Mike, can we not talk about Mike, Michael, Michael, your boyfriend now because there's a ring or something.
Sure.
Thursday.
It's in. The ring? Well, there was when you took. It all took it off.
No. Well, no, I didn't really.
All right. Well, anyway, yes, you had a. Ring on. Well, how do you know it was?
I. That kind of ring, though, well, why would?
You take it off then.
Cause cause my stylist decided I shouldn't have any rings because I had. An ear ringing.
Ohh.
Ah.
Well, she's probably right. Well, anyway, I'm happy that you're happy. You said you're happy and I'm happy you're happy whether you're engaged or not, which you are.
Thank you. Thank. Thank you.
That was. That's actually quite awkward in hindsight, knowing what you know.
Wow.
Now about Ellen, but she has.
Dial has told her not to wear it because it didn't match her grill.
Maybe, maybe, but that is, that's a bit awkward in hindsight, but she wanted privacy. She wanted privacy.
Well, they yeah, like we just said she had a really quiet low key wedding, so obviously took the ring off because didn't want anyone to know that she was engaged and and going to get. Married shortly, so good.
Yes.
On you, Ellen.
Yeah, exactly. And I mean, you know, this is at a. Time where perhaps Hilton's unavoidable Myspace is still kind of doing its thing. Privacy was becoming a bit of a status thing, and Lisa Marie was not interested. It's I think she was. I think she's quite introverted, like well, she was quite introverted. As an artist. She obviously had that desire to create and put music out, but. She obviously wanted to keep part of herself to herself, I think, which is very difficult. Of course, none of it matters now because she passed away in 2023 in January, when she was only 54 years old, which was was tragic.
Hmm.
Yes, very sad. But she did have, after the couple married. They did welcome twins in 2008, Harper and Finley.
Yes.
They lasted 10 years, divorced in 2016, very messy legal battle. That was her longest marriage, and in hindsight, often is the era that was seen as her last sustained period of stability because there was, yeah, a lot going on for.
Yeah. I just.
Her over the years.
I think she had a pretty difficult life, all things considered, and and and that's it. That's it for this show. Thank you, Lisa Marie, for at least getting married and being sort of happy this time in 2006. But hopefully you're happy that you've reached the end of the show with us and you're gonna continue to listen to more. You can come and find us on the socials if you like. Search for t -, 20 podcast, Facebook, Instagram. TikTok. I've been terrible on and we are on YouTube as well. We've been on YouTube for about a year now. Yes, and I think we've been getting on to like.
Yes.
Yes, there's a few people that listen on the YouTube. It's interesting.
Five years of doing this podcast as well, so that that's that's the well, I don't know. That's that whole. How many times do you do the same thing and expect the same a different result?
Do we get a badge or something? Just a badge. That would be nice.
Yeah, it's a badge. Would be lovely if anyone could spare one. Look, it's a badge of honour. Just being here, doing this for you. We appreciate you immensely. And we can't do it without you. There's more stuff next week as well. Of course. What have we got?
Yeah, that'd be good. We've got the state of the Union address, which is always a good time with Bush. Yes, here of what he's got to say on things.
Ohh, that sounds riveting pack of popcorn for that. Yeah, I think they're really chomping at the bits of that one.
Do you remember the Mohammed cartoon controversy? That's obviously culminated in the yeah, a A really bad terrorist incident in 2015. But this is kind of where it sort of all started. All chat about that.
I do. I do a lot. I thought that was around 2015, but I think. Right. Cool.
Eminem releases a song that gets a lot of rumours going. Uh, we had some new movies and I think ohh, you know what? We've got a book it. It wasn't the number one book. For that week. But it happened while. We're on holidays, so I just.
And you just felt the night destroyed in there.
Feel like let's throw it in there and then we'll do a boom. If anyone thought one, send one in. That's that's enough. Hmm. Hmm.
That sounds good. Yeah, send. You can do that. Send one in. Send your booms in, just on the socials. DMS, you can record 1 if you like or whatever, and we can try and figure out how. To extract it and play it, but.
And a big thank you to Daniel as well, who came back from his holiday to start our do our show intro do we didn't have to get a placeholder Daniel the real the real Daniel stood up.
Yes. Ohh yeah, and outro. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Daniel. Appreciate it. And you can hear.
It's good. Thank you.
Him right now. See ya.
Thanks for taking the time to rewind. Join us next time for another week. It was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials search for 2 -, 20 podcast on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.