The Hills: the era of scripted reality begins

Rewind to 28 May – 3 June 2006 and suddenly everyone wants to move to LA, start an online business and dramatically stare out a window while Natasha Bedingfield plays in the background.

👠 Reality TV gets a glow-up
The Hills premieres and turns internships, friendship drama and suspiciously staged lunches into prestige television for millennials. Lauren Conrad lands at Teen Vogue, Heidi starts her villain origin story and Spencer Pratt prepares to become the human embodiment of a red flag. It’s glossy, addictive and somehow convinces an entire generation that fashion closets were a viable career path.

🛒 “I’ll just start a Shopify store” begins here
Shopify quietly launches after founder Tobias Lütke gets annoyed trying to sell snowboards online. Early stores are chaotic little passion projects selling niche bike parts, handmade candles and deeply questionable single-product businesses. Fast forward 20 years and the app knows you want beige activewear before you do.

⚾ A sporting record… with an asterisk attached
Barry Bonds hits his 715th home run, passing Babe Ruth in one of baseball’s biggest moments. Problem is, the steroid allegations hovering over the era mean the vibe is less “universal celebration” and more “awkward family dinner where everyone knows something’s off.” Historic? Absolutely. Clean? Ehhhh.

🧬 Mutants, mayhem and too many plotlines
X-Men: The Last Stand crashes into cinemas with huge hype, massive box office numbers and enough major character deaths to make audiences emotionally exhausted. The Dark Phoenix saga finally arrives… and fans immediately start arguing about whether it was butchered. Early superhero movie growing pains in real time.

🚗 Corporate fraud but make it deeply 90s
Former Daewoo boss Kim Woo-jung is sentenced to prison after one of the biggest corporate collapses in modern history. Australians mostly respond with: “Wait… Daewoo still existed?” Suddenly everyone remembers the Lanos — the official car of getting your licence and praying the air con still works.

Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.

Transcript

Transcript is auto-generated. 

The year is 2006. We head to the hills and learn reality is scripted. Your Sony Cyber Shot uploads 462 blurry regrets. A Facebook poke makes everything complicated. And Twitter's like, cool story, you've got 140 characters. Go. T-minus 20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. Week 27 May 2006. T-minus 20. Bringing sexy back. I want to forgive you. T-minus 20. I hate this long distance relationship. And I want to forget you. You have no style or sense of fashion. This is a beauty. This is very nice. Yeah, boy. 

If you ever needed reminding of what the world looked like before Instagram, when reality TV felt real-ish and celebrities were full-blown global events and then buying something online perhaps required a small leap of faith. Welcome to T-minus 20, the podcast with your hosts Joe and Mel. Hello, Mel. 

Hello. Each week we rewind to the exact week 20 years ago. We unpack the chaos, the culture and the questionable decisions that defined it. And the week of the 28th of May 2006, reality TV is about to change forever. We've got a future billionaire platform quietly launching without anyone even clocking it. And we've got a sport moment, historic but also complicated. 

Your mom is just the vagina that made Heidi come on to Earth. Your mom is not Jesus or God or the creator. So why can't I say that? So why can't I say that? Why can't I say that? No, it's not. It's my opinion. It's my opinion. Take your. Hey, preacher, preacher. This isn't Bible study. This is Earth. No one's preaching. No one's preaching. No one's preaching here. 

This is life. 

Yes, let's take a breath. 

Things are getting serious when they start quoting the Bible. 

Ladies and gentlemen, if you're just joining us for the first time, sorry about that. I want to forgive you. 

And I want to forget you. know when the start of the show is featured in an episode, it's going to be a big moment. 

And it's a big moment. 

The hills. 

Big moment. Ladies and gentlemen, that was Spencer Pratt and his Mrs. Heidi and some other. 

I don't know. The sister. 

Yeah. 

Low. 

We'll talk about the hills a little later on. I was like, I'm going to build like a really, really, really good online store selling snowboards. I figured in 2004 that would be off-the-shelf software I can use, but I could not have been more wrong. 

So using his skills as a programmer, Toby built his online snowboard store from scratch. 

And the rest is history. Toby's online snowboard store actually turns into Shopify. 

The basic entire future of online shopping. Well done, Toby. 

Exactly. 

Let's take a look at the majestic art with home run #715. Only the second guy in baseball history. 

Only the second guy in baseball history. The controversial figure that was Barry Bonds smashing past Babes Ruth home run record and sparking one of sports messiest does this count debates for anyone who's into baseball. It's not my cup of tea, but it was an historical thing in the baseball world, so I guess it meant something. 

In hindsight, still a little bit controversial. We love the controversy. 

Yeah, we need to fill up a program, so we threw that one in there as well. 

Chuck that controversy in. I want to chat about a controversy from probably more 90s. 

90s controversy. 

I came across this great moment on Instagram the other day and I shared it. 

Yeah. 

Mooning is a lost art. You don't see many people mooning each other these days. 

You really don't. 

And I thought that's so true. 

It's very rare that you would see somebody just doing a moon. 

But well, I mean, we called it chucking a brown eye. 

Yeah. 

Not mooning. 

Yeah. 

Chucking a brown eye. 

Oh geez, that's a... 

Sounds gross, though. It's not a great word. Mooning is probably a bit more classy. 

I feel like chucking a brown eye was the working title. And they went, Listen, that's I don't know if that's going to fly. Oh, the Australians love it. Yeah, but I don't know. 

When we took it international, we changed it to Mooning. 

So when it went international, they turned it into Mooning. 

It's probably for the best. And I posted it, and I did, I get a message pretty much straight away. Oh my gosh, I literally said this the other day. So this is a popular conversation at the moment about the lack of Mooning in today's society. 

Nobody's just getting their bum out. 

It's the person that messaged me said, except I said chucking a brown eye. And the person that I was talking to had never heard that. I've been horrified. I've since tried to include it in more conversations to make sure we don't lose this art as well as this word from our vernacular. 

Are we launching a campaign here? 

To bring back the moon. 

On T-minus 20, I was going to say bring back the brown eye. I mean, my God. 

You strike me as an avid mooner back in the day. I bet you did. 

Look, I was, I'd pop the occasional brown eye. it's so crass, isn't it? Just dropping your DACs and showing something in your *** really. 

I've done it at a bus window. 

Oh, that would have been... 

It was like the moonlight bus or one of those, you know, those drunken buses. 

Well, how appropriate, just mooning on the moonlight. 

Moonlight bus, exactly. 

It's got a headlight on the side. Oh no, that smells bum hanging out the window. 

He was just asking for it. 

Yeah. 

I haven't seen one for years. 

Is it? Do you think maybe it's because you've matured? Maybe it's just your demographic. 

Hanging out in different circles. 

You're not really in the brown, not in the brown eye demographic anymore. I don't know. 

No, it's just a shame. Or maybe, you get in more trouble these days. 

For exposing yourself. I think it's always been against the law. I think the reason why it's less of a thing now is because everybody's got a camera in their pocket. And you know, I mean, I was definitely partial to a brown eye, but not when there was a camera around. Although having said that, yeah, we won't go there. But yes, partial to a brown eye, but not when there's a camera around. I think that people, people are like a little bit more self-conscious. It's like, well, I'm definitely not going to do that if someone's going to take a photo of it. 

Well, yeah, and I guess too, you know, people are really into sort of keeping things nice as well. So you probably need to time it with, you know, your waxing or your bleaching schedule. 

And you know, I mean, it's probably. 

Needs a lot of thought to go into when you're going to chuck a brown eye in this state. 

They could enhance it. 

Exactly. 

All of a sudden there's a photo of a brown eye and it's singing Figaro or something. The Herald of the Hatch Match and Dispatch Clue. God, we're off to a cracking start. I mean. 

Well, we've done our bit to bring it back into discussion. Let's see. Let's see if the stats go up. If more people are getting arrested for mooning over the next little while. I think we'll have a hand in that. How woke of us. 

Brown eyes. Isn't it time we started the conversation? I mean, this is ridiculous. Hatches matches and dispatches clue. We'll move on from that. We might as well. This one's interesting. This is a celebrity and normally we do a sound bite, right? And then you've got to guess who it is. But this particular person doesn't talk much. Doesn't talk much. 

Who chooses not to talk? Can't talk? 

Just hasn't really had their voice out in the media all their margins. A couple of little bits and pieces, but very hard to capture something that would warrant a hatches matches and dispatches clue. Still a fairly significant birth as far as the celebrity landscape goes, I think from back then and to now as well. So I hatched this week. And because we don't have a sound bite, this is a music video that they danced in. 

What's a girl to do? Now I'm pulling my hair out, hiding my clothes in the back of your room. 

I mean, there's so many things that you can do. 

So that's not them singing. 

No, They dance to this song once. Look, so there's so many. That's such a helpful clue. Look, I'll give you a couple other clues. It's celebrity parents. Okay, so that's probably how they ended up dancing in the video. But celebrity parents, bonus points, there's so many sides to this now because you could also try and guess who the song was and the artist as well if you like. I'll tell you all of it, all of it at the end of the show, you lucky things. Let's roll into the news and the 30th of May 2006. Do you remember this car brand? With deep regret, Debut announces Kane, the Debut dog, has disappeared. Kane helped to launch Debut five years ago, breaking Australian industry sales records. We were planning a celebration sale. Now it's become... 

The Dog Gone sale. Daewoo, Nubira X-Series sedan and wagon now from 19,500, including air conditioning. 

Geez, that's cheap for a car, isn't it? 19,500. The Daewoo. 

I do remember the Daewoo. Was the dog was cane a blue heel? 

He was a blue heel. 

Yes, I remember. And I was quite worried that he did actually get lost. Oh, that was just a silly play. 

The Dog Gone sale was one of their flagship promotions. It was really, that was peak Daewoo in Australia. 

Yeah, I never knew It was a cheap car. 

Cheap car made in South Korea. And it was often the prize on a game show. You'd be getting yourself like a Daewoo Lanos or something like that. 

You'd spin it up on Wheel of Fortune. 

Potentially, yeah. 

I remember there was one in the showcase on Price is Rights. 

Rights, yes, maybe a Daewoo, what was it? The Lanos, the Was it a Maganza? 

I don't know. Nubira. 

Oh, Nubira. Nubira. Yeah. 

Yes. 

Leganza. That was Dewu Leganza. 

Bonanza. Anyway. 

Something that rhymes with Stanza. 

Big Daewoo controversy though. 

Huge controversy though. 

And not the dog getting lost. 

Because so I was always like, where did Daewoo go? What happened to Daewoo? 

Yeah, haven't seen Alanos for a while. 

Exactly. Haven't seen Alanos going by for a while. Finding it very hard to get parts for my Daewoo. Do you know what I mean? What happened to Daewoo? And this story went right past the keeper back in 2006. I had no idea what was going on with Daewoo. Now admittedly, I was sort of in my, what would I have been in? my early 30s. Wasn't really a car guy, so I wasn't really. 

In the market for a day away? 

I never pricked my ears up at any stage, you know, 20 years ago and went, oh wow, I can't believe what they've done with day wood. 

You can prick your ears up now because I'm going to tell you what they've done with Daewoo. Bit of backstory, one of South Korea's biggest family-run mega corporations wasn't just cars, there were ships, electronics, even finance. You could get some finance from Daewoo. 

Daewoo, that's a bad idea based on this story. 

Led by Kim Woo-jung. 

Yes. 

It was a self-made business and he was often praised as a bit of a hero because of the rapid economic rise of Daewoo. At its peak in the 90s, it really symbolized ambition. Expand fast, go global, worry about details later. 

Get your cars on game shows on Australian television. 

Yeah, you know you've made it when your product features in there'll be a world beater wheel of fortune. 

Exactly. 

Amazing. Not so amazing, this time 20 years ago, Kim's sentenced to 10 years in prison for massive corporate fraud. 

Yes. It was, and when you say massive, if we did a little like Price is Right. So when you say massive, like could I have a guess? 

Okay, are we going closest without going over? 

Yeah. Okay. I'm going to say like 100 million. 

Higher. 

Really. 500 million. 

Higher. 

One billion. 

Higher. The little the little guy is still going up the stairs. 

I'm a little mountain climber. 

He's still whistling and you're like, you're still going. 

Good thing I've got some production music prepared like that I can put in later on. I'm going to say, well, 10 billion. 

Higher. 

No. $15 billion. 

Double it. Thirty billion dollars. Thirty billion dollars in debt. 

That's a lot of Laganzas. That's a lot of Laganzas and Lanosas. 

Wow. And he'd been on the run. He'd been on the run. 

He'd been on the land. 

He actually fled in 1999. Maybe with the dog. Ran off with the dog. 

Oh, for the dog on sale. Maybe. 

I don't know. Maybe they ran off together. 

You never know. 

They collapsed in 1999. Did not know that either. And only returns to career in 2005. to face the charges. 

You should be ****** *** if you bought a Daewoo in 1999. The company collapsed. 

The reason it happened, it did grow really aggressively in the 90s, but borrowed heavily to fund this global expansion across a lot of different countries, including Australia. 

They're like, you know, we'll slip you a few extra dollars if you just make it the showcase on The Price is Right. 

And old Kim was very good at creative accounting. Very, very good. Yes, very good at special numbers. Making the books look healthier than what they actually were. We had a financial crisis in Asia in 1997, which ended up exposing this creative accounting. And banks and investors suddenly started asking questions. 

Like, what happened to Daewoo? How come I can't get any parts for Malamas? 

That long division doesn't quite add up properly. 

Yes. And remember two, not just, there was shipping, appliances, all sorts of stuff. A variety of finance as well. 

The empire then unravels pretty quickly from here and it becomes one of the largest corporate collapses in modern history. It wasn't small. 

$30 billion. 

Kim, remember, was the international hero and then he turns fraudster. So bit of a symbol of corporate excess. Public opinion was split, however. They're, a bit of a mastermind of fraud versus, what do you expect? High pressure, poor guy, lots of pressure. So he did what he had to do. He was then pardoned in 2008, which just added to the controversy. 

So that was the thing. Like he gets locked up. 

And he was sentenced to 10 years. 

He does too, and then the president pardoned him. 

So yeah, don't worry about it. 

And then he went, I think he went on the public speaking circuit after that. 

Did he? 

Like, yeah, he lived a pretty long life beyond this. I think he passed away. 

He passed away a few years ago. 

He was like 80 something years old when he passed away. He's had a pretty decent life. But I would say, I mean, $30 billion and he only did two years. 

Where is the money? 

Where is the money? I mean, it's certainly not in the cars, because if you bought a Daewoo in Australia, it was basically, it was your first car, you either had just got your license or you just got divorced and you're like a single mum with a daughter. like that was the Daewoo. 

And then when you're doing a search on carsales.com and you're going price lowest to highest, Daewoo pops up. 

That's right. I mean, you might be, you know. 

The 1st 10 pages Daewoo. 

If you're in the. What was it of the Nibira? The little Nibira. 

Yeah, look, let's go through them. Let's go through them. Okay, we've got a couple of the iconic Daewoos. 

Yes. 

We'll start with the Nibira. 

That was the poor parent's car. 

That was late 90s, early 2000s. You never quite trusted it. had a wagon version. So it's been a family. 

Possibly I've retired. I need a new car and Jesus, my super isn't looking too flash. I'll get instead of going for the Holden, I'll get myself a Daewoo Nibira. 

Yes. felt like it shouldn't be running, but it was. The Lanos, which we've spoken about being on Family Feud. That's the first car. Not Family Feud. Oh, I thought it would have had it on Family Feud. That was a smaller car. 

That would be the one that you would like you would drag off, say, Hyundai XL at the lights, yeah, yes, yeah, 5 grand, $5000 for a car, mystery rattle energy. I could seriously, in this day and age, like if you put a new car out there with a bit of a warranty on it and it was only 5 grand, I would buy that. 

I would buy a grey plastic internally. I think some famous tennis players featured in ads for the llamas as well. Yeah. 

Doing what? Driving it. 

Driving it, like volleying it over the net. The Laganza. That's what you're thinking of, not Bonanza. 

The Laganza. That was the luxury. 

That was the executive sedan. 

That was the pleasure seats executive sedan. 

That was a, you know, I got a Lexus almost. Slightly more refined. 

Lex Ganza. 

The kind of car a regional manager might get if budgets were tight. 

Oh, right, yep, no worries. Gonna do a few calls. 

The Matiz. 

Oh, what was that one? 

Matiz. Kind of the equivalent of like the Mazda 121, the little rice bubble car. Almost cartoonish. Perfect for city driving, that's what it is. 

Oh yeah, perfect for city driving. It's the kind of car that you look at and go, if another car hits me. Even in a car park, I'm dead. 

But also, I can use the small car space. 

Yes. 

Easily. 

Yes. Easily. I guess parking, yeah, not a problem. Living probably, you know, not like it's not compatible with crashing. 

Probably more like a roller skate than a car. 

Like most cars aren't compatible with crashing, but I would say that maybe the Mateers even less compatible with crashing. 

Very iconic in hindsight. And the Kalos. 

Well, I mean, that just sounds like a Greek god, the Kalos. I'd drive a Kalos, mate. 

That was the glow up here. Did you know the Kalos was actually later rebadged as the Holden Barina? 

I said that's just a little hatchback as well. 

Yeah. And they probably a bit bigger than the Matiz. 

What's your excuse to Matiz? 

Slightly more modern, but still a bit budget bin. 

Yeah. Oh, well, at least we know what happened to Daewoo now. for I mean, so that was a that's a failed entrepreneur. Well, he didn't really, he was successful to a point. 

He was successful, successfully on the run. 

Yes, but this entrepreneur is an interesting one in the technology. 

This is a non-pentreneur. He wasn't trying to be an entrepreneur. Yes, the unlikely entrepreneur. 

You're right, sure. 

Shopify we're talking about launches in May 2006, founded by Canadian entrepreneur. 

Or non-entrepreneur. 

Tobias Lutke. 

Yeah. 

After he couldn't find good software to sell his snowboard. So he's gone, stuff it, I'll just do it myself. 

You want to get something done, you've got to do it yourself. And that's exactly what the man did. And yeah, I mean, this is a perfect example of necessity being the mother of all invention, and that's what it was. So in May 2006, Shopify goes live as an e-commerce platform designed for small business. And the idea is that basically anyone can set up an online store without needing to do any coding or build a website from scratch. It's a little online shop. 

So kind of like how WordPress let us all have our websites. 

Yeah, Shopify. 

This is the shopping version. 

A little digital shop front. 

Yeah, having to know how to do all the things. 

Digital strip mall on the information superhighway. 

Yeah, and at the time, e-commerce tools in the mid 2000s were either really complicated, so you had to be a developer. or pay a developer a lot of money. It was very expensive because you've got to have that security. If people are transacting using credit cards and things like that, then you've got to be able to accept the money. So there was that or the other option was basically things like eBay, which. 

I mean, eBay is like trusted for commerce for as far as buying and selling goes. 

Not if you're a business. eBay is kind of more just selling. 

Although if you're looking at eBay through a 2026 lens, there's a lot more of legitimate businesses that also have a shopfront or a presence on eBay so that they can actually compete because eBay is obviously not just for the person that wants to sell their secondhand stuff at home anymore. But I guess Shopfront is like next level. That's for legit registered businesses to like set up very rudimentary online trading. Yes. 

So online retail is not fully mainstream at this stage. And so he was frustrated, wanted to sell his snowboards and he then built this and it then becomes Shopify with a quiet launch. But a massive long-term impact. It goes on to become one of the biggest e-commerce platforms in the world. Help to democratize online retail, not just big brands, but small businesses now and creators and people with side hustles can get online and peddle their wares. Shifted it and it did shift the power away from marketplaces like eBay to being able to have your own control and sell things in the way that you wanted and accept the payments that you decided were okay. within obviously the Shopify infrastructure. 

That's right and it changed the game for thousands of people. There's lots of testimonials of lots of really happy people that were able to stand on their own 2 feet and run their own businesses because of Shopify. 

When I hear the cha-ching sound it's one of the best feelings in the world. 

And we do not want, and this is important, to be written into your story. We just want to push it from behind. I just launched my website. I'm trying not to cry. Oh my gosh. 

Everything is an order. But you have to always ask why. are you doing it? Being more independent. Giving people jobs and creating a community. Because I wanted a big change. I feel very fulfilled by what I do. I'm at my peak happiness right now. It's this adrenaline. It's this rush. It's this satisfaction? 

This is it. It's also the thrill of not having to deal with human beings in person. I think that's why they are so happy. But yeah, I mean, you look at it now, like it's just, it was a game changer. 

And it was a little bit niche at the start, which I love. So very hyper-specific hobby gear like the snowboards, niche cycling parts, obscure gaming accessories that you couldn't find in store, handmade everything. We saw a lot of soaps and candles and jewelry. Pet products, before pet products became a really big industry. Custom collars, accessories for specific breeds. 

Like, what's his name? Tobias? I reckon he's looking at it and he's just seen all these people selling like soaps and potpourri and it's turned into like that weekend market up in bow rule or something. He's just going, oh, what have I done? 

Oh dear. 

Yes. At least I've got somewhere to go, mate. Don't worry. 

Brand merch as well and indie creators. It enabled them to sell directly to the public and lots of random stuff, gadgets, novelty items, what you'd find at Clint's crazy bug and that kind of stuff popped out. 

Yeah, it was great. It's great. And it's still going on strong now, isn't it? Although... 

Now it's actually integrated into Instagram. 

Yeah, there you go. 

It integrates directly using Meta Commerce. And you can then tag your products in your posts. You can tag them in the reels and the stories. And oh, I am a victim of the Shopify through Instagram. 

Yeah, right. 

Anything that's presented to me via Instagram three or four times is always a good idea. And it just makes it so easy. You just press it. 

You just click through and you can buy it. 

And off you go. 

Yeah, that's dangerous. It is dangerous. I tell you what else is dangerous, and it could have gone either way for Tobias. That's his name, isn't it? is Tobias. Yes, it is. Because he tried to sell a snowboard online. Now, you might recall many years ago I had a longboard, a skateboard, a big long skateboard. 

Yes. 

And I was like, oh, you know, this is fun. It's great. I enjoyed it for a little while. 

I think you used it twice. 

I know I used it a few more times than that, but not many, because I've scared myself on it and wasn't very coordinated. And I just wasn't. 

You put a hole in the wall with it. 

I did. I fell off and went through the wall. 

No, you were putting the dog on it. You were pretending that the dog was riding it. And the dog got scared and you put a hole in the wall. 

Yes. So don't try that at home. And don't try this at home either. So I bought it and it was just collecting dust and I thought I'll sell it, I'll put it on eBay. And I sold it on and I was like, oh, I better account for a postage for this, but I didn't really think very hard about that. So I put it on eBay and I got it. Somebody bought it straight away. I was like, wow. And then I looked and I had to send it to Perth in Western Australia. And, I had to send it within the time frame that I'd obviously said, I didn't want to get a bad rating, right? So, I actually lost money on that sale. my gosh, yes, and I was just thinking, because he was doing snowboards, I'm like, Mate, I hope you factored in the postage, and he clearly did, and Shopify was a raging success, and that's why I can't have nice things. I just think it like... I don't really watch baseball or am that interested in baseball. It feels a bit disingenuous talking about baseball, but we promoted at the start of the show. 

We can't do it. Yeah, we have to do it now because we've said, and there might be some people that really like baseball. Baseball. I was going to say softball. 

Same thing, isn't it? That it upset them a lot. 

I played softball, not very well. 

Oh, there's some more listeners. If talking about brown eyes at the start of the show didn't help us lose some listeners, that will. No, but on the 28th of May, Barry Bonds, he's a very famous baseball player, one of the biggest stars in baseball in the USA. at the time. The powerhouse hitter from the San Francisco Giants hits his 715th home run. 

Let's take a look at the majestic arc with home run number 715. Only the second guy in baseball history to ever have hit a 715th homer. 

Yeah, pretty exciting. He was born into baseball, Barry Bonds. 

Was he? 

Multiple MBP. MVP winner and known for putting up like, crazy stats, like video game level stats in baseball. He was a freak and he was chasing history. Babe Ruth had a 714 home run record that stood as one of sports most iconic records at the time. And so the 28th of May, Bonds hits that 715th career home run, overtakes Babe Ruth. And that's a moment that should have been really pure celebration and one of baseball's most untouchable records broken, but instead, it was quite complicated. So people were like, yeah, hang on a sec. 

Because at this stage, I believe there was already rumors around performance enhancing drugs and allegations. 

It was a juicer, allegedly. 

Allegedly. I don't think he was ever convicted of steroid use at the time, but there was a lot of talk. 

People who are on steroids never admit to being on steroids. 

No, as we know, with Lance. 

Are you on steroids? no, I'm not on steroids. It's like people in prison. What are you in here for? I don't know. I'm innocent. You know, same deal. 

Big mistake. 

I'm not on steroids. Yeah. So, but allegedly Bonds had that controversy chased him around. It put a bit of a black mark on his coin. 

Yeah. So people didn't know whether to celebrate or not, because it's like, well, what if it's true that he is on the Roids? Then this is hardly an achievement. 

Babe Ruth wasn't on the Roids when he hit 714. 

Yeah, exactly. So the sport was pretty shaky at this stage because, and it wasn't, I don't think it was just him. I think it was the allegations were pretty rough across the sport at that stage. Audiences were increasingly questioning how natural some of these feats were at the time, but he does keep going. He eventually breaks the all-time home run record. 

I don't know, like in 2007 they chew tobacco in baseball. You've seen that they chew the tobacco, they have the dips with the like the nicotine and the caffeine and stuff that they stick in their lips, which I'm fairly certain will end up just rotting your entire bottom jaw out and probably doesn't do much for your breath either, but they're into it. Have you ever tried that ****? 

No. 

Mate, you have some of that stuff and it makes you feel like you run through a ******* wall. the rush from the nicotine or whatever the hell else is in it. So, it could have just been that. Maybe he just had a bit of a dip and then bang, hit that ball into orbit. 

But the interesting thing is he wasn't convicted at the time. He must have been convicted later because despite his stats, he is excluded from the baseball Hall of Fame. 

There's a lot more controversy to follow with Barry Bonds. I do remember Having some friends who were baseball fans at the time, hearing and hearing them talk about it, and I was going, What are you talking about baseball? And I went, Yeah, and I went, I'll see you later, I'm gonna get a bit, but yeah, no, there. I think there is more controversy to follow with Barry Bonds, but at the time, very confusing. 

Over to music this week in 2006. Actually, it's pretty boring. Niles Barkley's still number one in the UK. 

I'm not entirely mad about a short music segment. What's #1 in Australia? 

Still Rihanna. 

I. 

Mean it feels stable. Everything is kind of stable. You got Niles and Rihanna propping up the Commonwealth. Yeah. 

And US is looking pretty similar to last week as well. 

Me and the rest of the family here singing Where'd You Go? I miss you so. Seems like it's been forever. I got the right temperature official to you from the storm. Hold on, girl, I got the right tactics to turn you on. And girl, I want to be the papa, you can be the mom. They see me rolling. Yes, please someone help me. It's not healthy. 

You look so impressed there. 

Oh no, you know, I mean, what I'm impressed by really is even when it's mundane in the charts, in the charts? There's nothing worse than when it's mundane in the charts. I mean, you want a bit of spice down there. I mean, if you're going to go to the effort to chart, they might as well make a mess. Yes, no, in the charts, even when it's mundane in the charts, robot guy shows up every week. He does. 

He never dials it in. 

He always gives his best. He's nothing if not consistent. And I really have to pay that to him. Anyway, carry on. 

I agree. So Rihanna is still #1. Bad Day #2, Riding Chameleon Air #3, Temperature Sean Paul #4, and where'd you go? Fort Minor, the guy, the Lincoln Park guy featuring Holly, who sings on some other things. 

Yeah, robot guy there. 

Yes. 

Standing stoic in the face of mediocrity. if we've got nothing to listen to, I hope we've got something to watch. 

We do. We've got a new number one at the US box office, the X-Men. X-Men The Last Stand. 

I went and saw this. 

I think we saw this at the theatre. 

I think we did together. Was it a date? 

I think we didn't my parents go. Was that one? dear. no, that was the Bourne one. No, I think it was just us. 

Oh, yes, the Bourne one. That's not, that's as in the Jason Bourne one. It's like, just be careful. 

I'm embarrassed like exit. What am I talking about? 

Yes, who? Well, you know. 

On principle, I can't negotiate with these people. Well, then you know what needs to be done. We're going to protect our citizens. Make no mistake, my brothers. The humans will draw first blood. When the air is still and the night has fallen, there's only one question you must answer. Who will you stand with? A major pharmaceutical company has developed a way to suppress the mutant X genes permanently. They're calling it a cure. There's nothing to cure. Nothing's wrong with any of us for that matter. You of all people know how fast the weather can change. Did you find what you were looking for? The source of the cure is a mutant. 

Well, the source of the cure is a mutant. I mean, it's just an excuse for a big monologue from Ian McKellen and everyone's like, shut up, Gandalf. And it's like, no, he's Magneto this time. Yes. X-Men, The Last Stand. This was the third in the trilogy. This is the last one. X-Men trilogy. Well, allegedly they did some more, didn't they? I'm sure they did. 

Yes. 

The excuse to make some money. Of course they did. 

Hugh Jackman, Halle Berry, Patrick Stewart, and Magneto. 

The fans didn't like this one as much. This is a Brett Ratner directed. 

I feel like you didn't like this one as much. 

Brian Singer. 

I feel like you're a bit annoyed. I'm sure you made some comments. 

I didn't like it. 

Felt a bit annoyed at the end of it. It just, I just recall that. 

I know why, because when an X-Men movie came out, like I wanted X-Men 1990s cartoons, like the X-Men cartoon series from the 90s. 

Is that the song from it? 

No, I'm just making my own. Yes, it's the song from it. 

I don't know what the song is from it. 

And it's a very, very pitch-perfect rendition of it, I'll have you know too. It was great, and they'd fly off in the blackbird, and you know, and then, you know, Rogue wore the green and yellow costume, and they looked like X-Men. 

Yeah. 

And look, they kind of, it was okay. I mean, it turned into this really dramatic love story. Hugh Jackman is in love with the other chick that was the, I can't even remember their name. Jean. Jean. Jean Grey. Yes. And she turned into Dark Phoenix. 

Did you have the guy with the thing that looked like the sunglasses you got for free from Peter? 

Yes, James Marsden in the Pizza Hut sunglasses. Yeah, because if he takes off his Pizza Hut sunglasses, he can't control his laser beans. 

Very dangerous, yeah, X-Men, yeah, so he was in it, wasn't he in love with another one of these? 

He was in love with 'cause he was in love with the same one that Wolverine, Hugh. 

Jackman was in love with. 

Yes, I mean, and that's just none of that screams 1990s X-Men. I don't think they. 

Should be hooking up too, if they've got like different powers and powers and then they join powers. It's dangerous. 

It's like mixing meats. Yes, mixing meats indeed. 

You kind of like mixing your meats. 

Especially if you know ones are slightly undercooked, which this movie was, I can tell you that much. Yeah, I don't know. 

It made $450 million. 

Of course it did. It was a trilogy. They were going to ended. it was like the part three in this trilogy of X-Men films, so it had a lot of hype of it. And they were introduced to Dark Phoenix as part of it. And it's like, you're introducing Dark Phoenix at the end of the third one. What are you doing? I don't know. They killed off some major characters pretty quickly. They tried to juggle too many storylines and the tone had shifted because there was a new director. So it just kind of didn't work, I don't think. I did like Kelsey Grammer, Frasier as Beast, the big blue fairy dude. He was probably the truest character to the 1990s X-Men cartoon was definitely Kelsey Grammar as beast. 

Yeah, good, Look, and it was, yeah, mixed views from both the critics and the fans. Fans were divided. Some loved it. Others felt it sort of fumbled. And I think Dark Phoenix, that was really beloved in the comics. So people felt like it was a bit rushed and undercooked. 

Controversial opinion. A lot of people love Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. And I think over the years he has taken that character of Wolverine. He certainly made it his own to the point where nobody else could potentially imagine anyone else playing Wolverine except for Hugh Jackman, right? But controversial opinion. Oh, here we go. I don't mind Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. I'll say that. I thought Logan was a spectacular film. It's probably, it wavers in and out of my top 10 greatest comic book films of all time, Logan. Fantastic. But controversial opinion, at the time, I was like, I wouldn't have cast him. I wouldn't have cast Hugh Jackman as Wolverine. It was just a bit too Peter Allen, wasn't he, really? 

The boy from Oz, shaking miraculous. I think, yeah, I think because he's a bit too dancey. 

Yeah, you I would have cast. 

Who? 

Glenn Danzig. Glenn Danzig is Wolverine. The big mutton chop, sideburns, big muscly dude. He's a bit short though. But I mean, Wolverines, you know, generally, the. 

Creature will be agile. 

I mean, the Wolverine isn't quite a wolf or a dog. It's kind of a small creature. So Glenn Danzig in stature probably does resemble more of a Wolverine, you know. But I mean, these days we're looking for other Wolverines as well. And I'm thinking, well, Henry Cavill, Henry Cavill would be a good Wolverine. Sid he's got a British accent. Hello, Bob. 

Oh my God. 

How good would it have been if Glen Dansie could showed up on the hills? That would have been great. 

As Wolverine. 

As Wolverine. 

And just slashed the **** out of everyone. 

Oh, you're taking me to somewhere. This is, that would just be an amazing thing. Let's rewrite history. Let's do it. Somebody do it? 

The Hills, the big premiere, the 31st of May 2006. Of course, it's a spin-off of Laguna Beach, the real Orange County, and follows the main... 

An improvement? 

Star Lauren Conrad as she navigates post high school life in LA, fashion, friendships, work and very watchable drama. We loved the drama. We were there for the drama. 

Okay, we were there for the drama. I kind of came late to the party. I didn't really come late to the party. It's just that we had pay TV and they pushed Laguna Beach in the Hills on you all the time. It was in every commercial. And then I think we were watching the soup on E and Joel McHale in that show kept featuring these clips from the Hills and it was just so absurd. And I was like, this is 

There were many times when I'd come home from work or I'd come out of the shower and you'd just be sitting there watching the hills and I'd be like, what's going on here? 

I was trying to understand it on so many levels. One, it was wickedly entertaining in its absolute absurdity. The absurdity of it was what made it so entertaining. But also the fact that they were in these, they were on location. And so from a logistics point of view, they're doing a reality series where they're on location And so they're in these big nightclubs and venues and coffee shops and houses and all these other places. And I'm just like, from a logistics point of view, I'm like, Jesus Christ, the camera crew and the audio team on this show work so hard. 

It was very well lit. 

Jeez, the people behind the scene. 

In the moment reality, wasn't it? 

I know, It's like, we just do that again, which we, okay, so we obviously know that it's fairly scripted. 

Well, Ryan Cabrera told us so. I remember we were chatting to him. He told us, so it must be true. 

Mostly based on fact, but let's continue the drama. I don't know, but there was writers and there were these people. And so Lauren Conrad was the main star, although I would argue that somebody else was the main star, which we'll get to a little bit later. 

Lauren moves to LA though, so it is really Lauren's story. So from Laguna Beach. Yes, and she has the internship at Teen Vogue. Okay. Because she wants fashion, career in fashion. 

Fashion. 

And so she's instantly iconic as this Teen Vogue career girl and all of the stuff that goes with it. So there's the photo shoots, there's the big product launches, there's always something that they're going to. And she then meets and becomes besties with Heidi Montag. 

This is the, but wait, there's more. 

And I think Heidi worked in PR. So I think that was not for Teen Vogue. 

I just didn't know that. 

She was in PR. So there was a lot of events. There was a lot of colleagues or their network. And then Lauren's photo shoots for Teen Vogue. And then the camera crew were following Audrina around everywhere. Patridge, she was the housemate. Yes. I loved Audrina. Audrina, yes. 

She was one of my favorites. 

And then wasn't it had this very distant look about her all the time. I was like, what planet is Audrina on? She's had this look at her eyes. 

Where is she? If she, I think she was trying not to look at the cameras. Breathe twice if you're there, Audrina. 

So the look in. 

Her eyes was, help me. 

It really was, wasn't it? Whitney Port and she worked at Teen Vogue with Lawrence. So that was her work wife, as they say. 

Yeah. Is that where that phrase came from? 

I think so. 

Somebody called me that once at work. I'm your work wife and I just went, oh, you are. That is, that's not okay. I'm going to HR. I'm a work polygamist. I have many work wives in my work harem. So weird. 

The early episodes are about the friendship dynamics, navigating a new career, work struggles, dating drama. But then it very quickly becomes more about who did what to do. 

Wait, there was a there was a Kardashian or a Jenner. Brody Jenner was in. 

What? No, Brody was in Bruce Jenner's son. He was in Laguna Beach. 

Oh, was he? 

Didn't he went on the hills? 

He ended up on the hills. 

I think he popped in. 

I think he popped by. They would have done a whole episode. Oh my God. Because Lauren's coming to visit. 

Lauren and. Who's that other one? Kristen? No, Kristen. Cavalieri. 

Calamari. 

In Laguna Beach, weren't they fighting over Brody? Brody was the heart throb in Laguna Beach. Yeah, he does. I'm sure he does make an appearance in the Hills, but he's not a central character. Neither is she. 

I won't forget you, bro. 

At some point as well. 

Yeah, Kristen does. 

I think so. I think it's at a wedding. I think she comes to a wedding and she wasn't invited. 

She wasn't invited. 

And everyone was ****** ***. Perfect timing because this is MySpace era. Celebrity culture is exploding and we love watching real people just living these beautifully fantastic lives where they just look incredible. They have the ideal jobs in PR and fashion. 

It's great setup, really great setup. And I love all of the setup. I love all of that. 

Amazing clothes. 

None of that is why I watched it. None of that is why I watched it. None of that. And because what happened was, I think we find that the show spiralled into absurdity and it was still kind of framed it. And like you talk about all these stars like Lauren and Kristen, whoever and Audrina and Brody coming to visit and all that stuff, but there and Heidi Montague, but the one, the real hero of the show And villain at the same, hero villain all rolled into one. And I talked about him the other week with that Bedingfield song. And I look, I need to walk my comments back because I did refer to him as that Spencer Pratt. 

Yeah, and I've gone soft on him in the last few years. I feel like he's grown up. 

That's a relief. 

I feel like he's grown. 

Yes, I have not. And he's still a but he's my and I love him for it. And ladies and gentlemen, Spencer. 

So I'm sorry that you're making yourself cry. All right, well, my answer is no. Sweet. My answer is get out of my car. Because what I wanted to do and say to you, dear, woo! I didn't, because I was praying. Wah, wah, wah, wah. What are you crying about, Stephanie? She ignored me at the party, Mike! When she popped out of my mom and they tried to hand her to me, I went like this, ah. 

I think that was Stephanie. Was it Stephanie Prattie's sister? She was in it too. 

Just the tiniest glimpse into that world. And every episode, every time he was on screen, he just lit the place up. I was like, oh, what's he going to do now? Oh, he's got his crystals. The crystals were great. 

The crystal, yeah, Crystal Iris Spencer was particularly good. 

Yeah, because now he's just. 

He was just unhinged. 

She was a **** with crystals. Yeah, it was just. 

And then he was also. We talk about them all being beautiful and gorgeous and amazing outfits. He kind of looked like a skeleton. And what did John McHale say with the flesh-coloured beard? 

Oh, the flesh-coloured beard. 

He was a little bit... 

Body shaming Spencer. 

Spencer was a little bit, well, he didn't carry the same sort of class and charisma as the rest of the cast. I didn't think. I felt like he sort of stood out. 

Like Heidi Montag was like the girl of the Playboy Mansion. And she was the one that was with Spencer. Yes. 

Must have been the crystals. Must have been. I don't know. But he became the villain. He became the villain of the show and we all loved it. And we were just sort of like, is this real? How can this be real? They said this is real. I don't think this is real. 

Well, it turns out it wasn't. 

Wasn't real. Wasn't real. 

None of it was real. 

But we loved it. 

We loved it anyway. It's like wrestling. It's real to me. Damn it. 

And so I jumped in the way back machine, as I like to do from time to time, I like to go back. 

Jump in the old way back machine. 

Jump in the way back machine. Take me back to 2006, please. Look at that. 

Back to when my jowls didn't hang so much. 

Yeah, the divots in the forehead weren't quite as deep. 

Yes, their personality lines, don't worry about it. 

In time. So I jumped in the way back machine and I was looking for a recap on television without pity. They didn't actually recap the hills, probably because not real. 

Because there's no, they just. 

There was nothing to say. 

They maybe they pity there. Maybe they actually had some pity there. 

But there were some forums. There were some forums. There were some fan forums. The fans who loved it. One of the fan forums was called Things I've Learned from the Hills. 

Oh, here we go. 

Can I share with you? 

This is a fan forum on television without pity. 

These fans discussing what they've learned from watching the Hills. 

Yeah, sure. 

Are you ready? I've got 10. Is that okay? 

I'm, I am, my body is ready. 

We'll start with number 10. Never wear combat boots to the beach. I think they wore a lot of combat boots. Probably Justin Bobby. 

Justin Bobby. 

I'm gonna say it was Justin Bobby. Who went out with Audrina? 

It's Justin Bobby. I thought that was like Timu Justin Bieber. Ladies and gentlemen, we couldn't get Justin Bieber, so here's Justin Bobby. 

Number 9, noses and breasts can change shape overnight. 

Correct. The applause is more for the breasts, I think. Yeah. 

I've learned from the Hills #8. You don't need an education, skills or great work ethic to get a fabulous job. 

That's very true. Very true at Vogue or even as a clothes horse on a reality show. 

Number 7 of what I've learned from the Hills. Two names are apparently better than one. Looking at you, Justin Bobby. Ladies and gentlemen, Justin and Bobby. Number 6. Any gal can start her own overpriced fashion line if she's got the right connections and a hitch reality show. 

Yes, of course, because you know. 

Lauren Conrad line of headbands and scarves and dresses and tween fashion. 

Yes, all available right now on Shopify. 

Number 5 of things I've learned from the Hills, never go out drinking with your clients before a photo shoot and always be professional, especially with pretentious up-and-coming rock bands with ****** male lead singers who insist on wearing their own size 8 women's jeans to a photo shoot. 

What's here for blokes in size 8 women's jeans? You can imagine that. 

That's a great life lesson, isn't it? 

Yes, it is. 

Number 4, you can make a career out of checking your MySpace page. 

I don't think that's true. 

I think that was Spencer. I think he spent a lot of time checking whose top eight he was in. 

I don't think it was. I don't think that's what you were making a career out of, buddy. Just quietly. 

Number 3, if it's business and not personal, it's okay to repeatedly stab someone in the back. 

Absolutely. 

That was a very, very common line on the hills. This is not personal. This is just business. 

Yeah. 

I'd say that a lot. 

Yeah, the whole show. None of it was personal. 

Never talk about work while at work. This is #2. That's the perfect time to discuss your various relationship issues instead. 

Correct. Yeah, absolutely. anything but work. 

I don't think they ever did any work at any of their works. 

No. 

They just talked about it. 

No, they just sat there and talked. And then the next thing, the next scene was them after work. And it's like, is that, what did you do all day? What did you do all day? 

And #1 thing I've learned from the Hills from the Television Without Pity fan forum If it looks like a douche and sounds like a douche, it's probably Spencer. 

Your mom is just the vagina that made Heidi come on to earth. Your mom is not Jesus or God or the creator. So why can't I say that? So why can't I say that? Why can't I say that? No, it's not. It's my opinion. It's my opinion. Hey, preacher, preacher. This isn't Bible study. This is earth. No one's preaching. No one's preaching here. 

This is like, let's all take a breath. Let's all take a breath. 

Yes, hatches, matches and dispatches time. Like I said, we didn't have any audio. This person doesn't talk much, but this was a hatch, a very famous baby that was born this time 20 years ago that danced in a music video that sounded like this. What's a girl to do? 

Now I'm pulling my hair out, hiding my clothes in the back of your room. So I can come over, pick up my things, but it's just an excuse. 

Okay, so if you said the music, if you said that the group was De Young, K-pop group De Young, and the song was What's a Girl to Do, then you are correct. You are very correct. 

I don't know that anybody would have said that. 

Maybe. K-pop is a big thing these days, and it's an especially big thing in the Jolie household. I won't say Jolie Pitt because they've obviously separated, but this is Shiloh Jolie Pitt's music video that she danced in. 

Shiloh was born May 27, 2006 in Namibia. 

Yes. 

Peak Brangelina era. 

And they named her after a dog. Shiloh is a dog's name. 

Is it? 

There's so many dogs. Shiloh, you were, my friend. It's that Neil Diamond song about a dog called Shiloh. I did not know that. I think it's a lovely name, actually. It is nice. Shiloh. It's a really cute name. 

One of the most high. 

But it just says golden retriever to me. 

Was it a golden retriever? 

When I see Shiloh, I see you more like it. 

Picturing something smaller, like a Bijon Frise or something. 

Bijon Frise could, no, they've always, they don't have sort of O names, they have E names at the end of them, right? Muffy and Miffy and Puffy and whatever. Shiloh, Shiloh's a more distinguished name. Or a husky. 

I could see a husky being called Shiloh. 

Oh no, I could say a husky called Spencer because they're all f**kwits. I mean, I don't want to sort of discriminate against breeds, but this is the path we're going down. I don't have to, they just show up and they insult themselves, they're mad. Any dogs on a phone? They're too smart for their own good. That's their fault. Anyway, back to Shiloh, back to Shiloh, not the golden retriever, the child of Brad Pitt. Or the Bijon freeze. No, definitely was never a Bijon freeze called Shiloh. The child of Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. 

One of the most high profile celebrity births of the 2000s. Global media frenzy. The reason Shiloh was born in Namibia was to avoid paparazzi chaos. Really? The first photos of Shiloh sold for reported. Did you see like? 

The paparazzi doing some kind of Indiana Jones style trek to Namibia to try and find like the birth of... 

Crawling through like a cave with snakes. 

It's almost like a biblical thing. And then they found her wrapped in swaddling clothes. They laid in a manger in the middle of the area. Yes, exactly right. 

And some being chased by big boulders. 

Accidentally when they're trying to get the photo of Shiloh, they Stumble across somebody sacrificing to people to Kali Mar and pulling hearts out of them. 

Oh gosh, don't talk about that. still freaks me out. 

Well, you never know, you know, that's why they went to Namibia. And it obviously freaked out the paparazzi because they went, that! We're not going there. That's like some **** out of an Indiana Jones film. 

We'll just pay you between 4 and 10 million instead. 

Exactly. 

Which I think that's lovely. They donated it to charity. And yeah, look, we were all invested. I remember at the time it was massive. 

Shiloh. Oh yeah, it was going to be the most beautiful child in existence from the two most beautiful people on the planet. 

Of course. They're frequently photographed, but mum and dad tried to manage exposure. So yeah, not The paparazzi didn't have a lot of access. 

And they did. They've done pretty well in protecting, I think, her. Because like I said, like there's not a lot of, I think there was some footage of her maybe speaking in Cambodia or somewhere as a little kid, but it was like some really grainy, it was like almost like found footage, like a Bigfoot video proving Shiloh's existence. But not a lot. Maddox was speaking a little bit, but Shiloh didn't say much, but she said a couple of words in Cambodian, I believe. And that was all I could find. And I was like, well, that's not going to work. just get the young thing. But she has kept a low profile to a degree up until now. I mean, there's been photos of her, you know, when she's rocking the shaved head with her mom hanging out and stuff. And then there's all these, there was all the talks about gender fluidity and all of that sort of stuff and how they were raising their kids. And that's none of our business. Like really, now they want to raise their kids is fine. And then she's dropped her surname. So now she's just Shiloh Jolie instead of Shiloh Jolie Pitt because she's had a bit of a falling out with her dad and the paparazzi love all that stuff. And the girl just wants to dance in a DeYoung video. 

What's a girl to do? 

What's a girl to do indeed? 

Dance in a video. But yeah, Shiloh has largely avoided controversy, stayed out of the spotlight, more known for presence rather than drama and supporting mum. Shiloh's always been very supportive of Angie and being there at the premieres and going along and supporting mum. 

I don't know. I feel like maybe we focused on the wrong thing with the Hills this episode because when Shiloh was born, That was like, I said, those beautiful celebrities and the paparazzi. This was like Jesus. This is like paparazzi celebrity Who magazine Jesus. Do you know what I mean? 

It was. 

And everyone just collectively lost their mind. It's just like, well, people. 

And we obviously had the story about, you know, Brad and Angie hooking up when he was maybe still with Jen. There was all that went along with it as well. And now they're giving birth, like, woo, yeah, it was very, very big deal at the time. 

But happy birthday, Jennifer Aniston was spotted at the local BWS getting quite chardonnays just to celebrate the birth. And that's the end of the show. We are done. We are done. I don't want to add to that speculation, that media frenzy over the birthday. Happy birthday, Shiloh. Happy 20th birthday. Oh, they grow up so fast, don't they? That's it. We're done. What is happening? Next week, Mel. 

Oh, we've got a suspected World War Two bomb. 

Oh, God. 

A meteorite. 

Oh, things falling from the sky all over the place. 

Nelly Furtado. Big, big week for Nelly Furtado. 

She didn't fall from the sky, did she? No, Thank goodness that would have made an awful mess. 

Oh, and one of Australia's most loved TV shows finishes up. 

Oh, Confession Time. I'll tell you more about that next week. Thanks very much for listening and subscribing and putting up with us. And if you're still here after the brown eye chat at the start, then you're a trooper. 

Maybe you should help bring it back. Go into a conversation at the water cooler during the week. Maybe use mooning, because that's probably a bit more HR adjacent. But you know, maybe even chuck one. Chuck one. 

See what happens. Chuck, have you chucked your brown eye today? That's what I thought. Thanks very much. We'll see you next week. Find us on the socials, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok. You know the story. 

Thanks for taking the time to rewind. Join us next time for another week that was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials. Search for T-minus 20 podcast on Facebook, Instagram and TikTok.