The week Lance Bass reclaimed his story

Rewind to 23–29 July 2006, when gossip blogs could make global headlines, Australians argued over drinking recycled water and apparently every second Neighbours actor fancied themselves the next pop star.

🎤 Lance Bass tells his story
After years of rumours and relentless tabloid speculation, the *NSYNC star came out in a People magazine exclusive. We rewind to one of the defining celebrity moments of the 2000s, unpack the role Perez Hilton played and explore just how much has changed in the last 20 years.

🚰 Would you drink recycled sewage?
Toowoomba became the centre of one of Australia's most memorable public debates, with 'Poowoomba', 'toilet to tap' and plenty of fear campaigns dominating the headlines. Looking back, it's a fascinating lesson in how language can shape public opinion.

🌈 When one sporting event became two
The inaugural World Outgames kicked off in Montreal after a spectacular falling-out split the LGBTQ+ sporting movement. We revisit the history of the Gay Games, why they existed in the first place and how the conversation around inclusion in sport has evolved.

🥵 California's silent disaster
One of the deadliest heatwaves in US history claimed more than 140 lives, many of them older people living alone behind closed doors. It's a sobering reminder that the most dangerous natural disasters aren't always the loudest.

🎶 Ramsay Street's latest pop princess
Stephanie McIntosh released Mistake, giving us the perfect excuse to revisit the surprisingly long list of Neighbours stars who swapped soap scripts for recording studios. Kylie, Jason, Holly… was acting just Plan B?

👑 A crowning moment... then a collapse
Miss Puerto Rico was crowned Miss Universe before fainting on stage moments later. We revisit one of the pageant's most memorable finales and look at how beauty competitions have transformed since Donald Trump owned the Miss Universe organisation.

🎧 Pharrell steps into the spotlight
Before Happy conquered the world, Pharrell released his debut solo album In My Mind. We look back at the record that proved one of music's greatest producers was ready to become a star in his own right.

Hang with us on socials to chat more noughties nostalgia - Facebook (@tminus20) or Instagram (tminus20podcast). You can also contact us there if you want to be a part of the show.

Transcript

Transcript is auto generated. 

The year is 2006. We head to the hills and learn reality is scripted. Your Sony Cyber Shot uploads 462 blurry regrets. A Facebook poke makes everything complicated. And Twitter's like, cool story, you've got 140 characters. Go. T-minus 20. Rewind 20 years with Joe and Mel. 23 July 2006. B minus 20. Bringing sexy back. I want to forgive you. B minus 20. I hate this long distance relationship. And I want to forget you. You have no style or succession. This is a beauty. This is very nice. Yeah, boy. 

Think of us as your weekly time machine. Welcome to T-minus 20, where every episode rewinds exactly 20 years to unpack the biggest news, weirdest pop culture moments, and gloriously forgotten trends from the same week in history. With your hosts, Joe, and the brains of the operation over there, Mel. Hello, Mel. 

Hello. We are going to bring you the stories you vaguely remember, the ones you've completely forgotten, and potentially some rabbit holes and tangents you didn't see coming. 

Nice. 

Sorry, goes with the territory. We are rewinding the 23rd to the 29th of July 2006 this week. 

In the 90s, if you were gay, especially in a group like this, your career is over. 

Oh, is it what or was it? I guess it kind of was. 

This was a big moment in pop culture. Lance Bass from NSYNC tells the world his truth. 

We'll unpack it a little later on. it's the Veronicas. I mean, it's Stephanie McIntosh. 

Sounds like the Veronicas. 

It really does. 

This is a time when everyone from Ramsey Street wanted their own record deal. 

I mean, they're walking in the footsteps of giants, like Kylie and Jason, Craig McLaughlin, and Check One Two. Yeah. We'll unpack that one as well. We have been told by Peter Beattie that drinking recycled sewage by other Queenslanders is the Armageddon solution. 

It's the Armageddon solution for them. 

It's the first option for us. That's right, if you were in Toowoomba. Toowoomba. This time 20 years ago, it was literally Poooomba, where Peter Beattie, the premier, was saying that it was okay for you to drink sewage. Oh gosh, I remember this. It's a little bit more complicated than that. 

It was a fun time though, I remember. 

I don't know if we will unpack that one. Well, he probably have to. It was big news. It was big news. It was funny, before we were about to go on and start the show, I was like, hey, Mel, like, do you want to talk about something this week? Anything come to mind, anything you've seen on the internet? And you were like, I haven't been on the internet. I was like, what? 

Yeah, often I'm finding cool things that people share, only on Instagram, because that's the only one that I'm on. But I've kind of banned myself from it because... You've been reading books. I've started reading books at night. 

Yeah, How's that working out for you? 

It's not too bad. I've been rotating between fiction and non-fiction. 

Oh, really? So, are you reading like 2 books at once? 

Yes. 

Really. 

I am. 

I didn't know you were doing that. 

Yeah, it was. Is that scandalous, isn't it? 

No, I just. I mean, I don't know if I'm shocked or impressed. 

I'm a woman or something. 

No, well, it's impressive. It's just impressive. 

Yeah, I have. been reading and I haven't been spending much time on the socials. I've done an odd post for us every now and then, but I was just finding it was too much for me. It's just stressing me out. I was going down these rabbit holes and I'm still getting a lot of RIP content. That's just too depressing. 

Well, I remember we had that conversation about all of the stuff coming at you and how your nervous system wasn't, you know, built for it. And so you've kind of, it looks like you're giving your nervous system a bit of a reset. 

I'm trying. 

How's it working out? Try. 

I don't know. Do I see more Zen than usual? 

No, not really. 

So it's going well, clearly. 

I think it's, I think only because if it's not the case of it being one thing, it's another. So, and that's not your fault. That's just the way of the world. So it's just trying to find other ways. The universe is probably just trying to find other ways to f*** with you, really. The universe found other ways to f*** with me as well, because I was like, I'm not going to go online too much more either. I just want to watch like movies. I want to consume some art instead of like watching people who have no connection to art just put **** out on the internet. So I was like, I want to consume some art. And then I was like, oh, how, you know, I'm so lost in menus and streaming and all of that sort of stuff. 

And so it's not like where you go to work or you go and hang out with your friends and everyone's talking about the same show anymore because you're not sort of gathering around the free to air weekly kind of show. Anyone can watch anything at any time and you don't, you don't I get recommendations like you see. 

That's right. So I feel like I'm missing out. So what did I do to get recommendations? I used artificial intelligence. I used artificial intelligence to recommend me films. And it started off pretty good. And then actually, it's they've, they've, it's the we. I don't know what, and what do you, they them for artificial intelligence? 

Mine's a he. 

Okay. 

Yeah. 

AI has recommended some movies and it was pretty good. But because of the podcast and because it's obviously, I've put other things into it, it's like, so it's just send me a whole bunch of time travel films and time loop films. And they've been good, but I've watched like seven of them. 

I'm like, I need something different. 

I need something different. But it's like AI is just trying to lock me into something that I don't want to be now. 

You know, that's interesting because I was getting my GPT to recommend books to read. So kind of AI version of you might also like. Remember when that was such a novelty when you'd buy books off Amazon when Amazon only sold books? And it'd go, oh, you might also like this book. So I thought I'd plug into ChatGPT some books that I'd read recently and give me something. I don't want the same genre necessarily. I want the same feels. I want it to do the same kind of thing for me. And it's been sending me, I've been given like multiverse time travel. That's exactly what I got, the same multiverse time travel stuff. I must be reading the movies you're watching. 

You are reading. What's the book you're reading? 

I was reading Dark Matter. 

I fini I binge watched that series last weekend while you were reading. So it was on while you were reading the book. It's like parallel lives in the same bed. So bizarre. 

And that is about a multiverse too. Yeah. I thought time travel was bad, but multiverse? 

That's the next level. 

I can't deal with that. 

So it's been doing like multiverse, time travel, time loops, different like time loops causing multiverses. And I'm like. 

It's too much. I was trying to take a break. I think I need to go back to social media. I'm like, let's stress. 

Wayne's World, anyone? Cheech and Chong, maybe? Just something, a little less cerebral. Well, if you want that, you've come to the right place. It's A Hatches, Matches, and Dispatches clue for our little segment at the end of the show. We have a, this one is a match. We have a match this week. 

A wedding. Oh, I love this wedding too. I think of this wedding often. I remember seeing this one in all the magazines and I was just, wow. 

I was sad. 

Oh, were you? 

Yeah, very little jealous. I thought I might have had a shot. 

Able to be alone too before you can be with somebody else. So I feel like I'm just kind of growing up right now. It's taken a long time. 

That's good advice. And I mean, who has grown up really? We'll find out who that is at the end of the show. 

Over the next 12 days, temperatures would climb past 110 degrees Fahrenheit in town after town. People would die in their homes with the air conditioner sitting right next to them, turned off, because they genuinely. 

Thought the worst of the heat was over. Jesus, that's a pretty bleak start to the news. 

It is, yes. 27th of July, we had the California heat wave. One of the deadliest heat waves and it was kind of what happened afterwards that really shocked everybody because it lasted for so long, for nearly two weeks. Temperatures, as they said, what was it, around 110 Fahrenheit, which is 40. 

It was around 40 degrees. 

40 degrees Celsius. 

I mean, we've experienced that kind of heat here. 

But not prolonged. And some areas were well above that. 

And I think more up to like 2 weeks. Yeah, some were pushing like 50, I think. Like they're getting close to it. 

And it's stretched power supplies to breaking point. And I remember we were talking about the California blackouts not so long ago as well and the issues with the power grid over there. There are a lot of blackouts happening in areas across California at this time. And air conditioning at this point, not as common or as affordable, particularly in some of those harder hit communities. 

Yeah, well, there were people that probably had it that couldn't even turn it on because of the electricity costs. 

Or was it blackouts? 

Yeah, or blackouts or whatever, and then brownouts. And then obviously, when it gets that hot, it puts a massive drain on the power grid anyway. So yes, of course. The death toll for this is interesting because there's reported to have had 140 people officially found to have died from the heat, although later on they estimate that the true number could have been two to three times higher, some as high as like 600, they would say, which is extraordinary. So Fresno was one of the hardest hit areas, Fresno, with the coroner's office reportedly overwhelmed by the number of bodies there. And a lot of the, I mean, as is usual, with a lot of these heat waves. And we've experienced this in Australia as well. I think you're right, though. I think it is the amount of time, like we will have like a series of days where it will be like mid 30s climbing into the 40s and then it'll sort of crescendo and hit like a mid 40 if it's really bad. I don't think I've experienced a mid 40, probably around 40, 41, 42. And then it'll just drop right off and you'll end up with a few cool days after that. So, but for a couple of weeks is a lot. And so as is par for the course with this, a lot of this was elderly people living alone that had actually perished in the heat inside homes without adequate cooling. And yeah, and it was like, there was something like nearly half of those victims were people that were living alone. And remember we talked about the heat wave in Italy, I think like sometime last year. And they didn't have any air conditioning there because of the concrete. They're not used to that sort of stuff. But I mean, that's the thing. In California, they were never unfamiliar with it. A lot of it is desert, but it is just that long period of time. 

And I think the biggest risk factor was actually social isolation. Because there were people, like you say, elderly and living alone. And even some of the victims had been visited by family or friends within 24 hours, but then just succumbed to the heat, which is just so sad. There were more than 16,000 extra emergency department visits, over 1,000 additional hospitalizations linked to the heat, obviously spikes in heat stroke, dehydration, and animals as well were affected. 10s of thousands, cattle, chickens, huge, huge scale. 

That was just like dropping dead because it was so unbearably hot. It's interesting in the context of now because this was a very large event. But again, like I said, there's no stranger to it. Now, like I've heard reports of heat waves from here on in. Like from 2006 onwards, there's always reports of heat waves and fires. They probably get sick of hearing about us. We probably get sick of hearing about them with all our heat waves and fires. You know, there's so much of it. but it's par for the course. But I think it did change how people respond to it. the whole welfare check thing, cooling centres, emergency alerts forming part of all these heatwave plans. It's like us, like with fire plans and things like that. 

Yeah, and evacuation centres and places you can go. 

Yeah. 

And a lot of reminders for people to just check on their loved ones. I remember this summer just gone, actually. We did have a couple of days that were quite hot. And I remember them saying over the radio, call in to to your neighbor, if they're living alone, ring your family, make sure they've got the air con ready and all that stuff. 

Then it was like, leave water out for animals. And then it's like, and now it's like, leave water out for bees. And it's like, we're even helping insects in extreme heat these days, which seems like total madness. But the fact that it is like, actually, it's a public health issue. It's not just, woo. Geez, it's a bit hot, isn't it? How about this? It's pretty hot. I mean, in Australia, it's like that all the time anyway. But it is a public health issue now, which I think, you know, having those action plans, cooling centres and alerts and all of that stuff because of this is great, you know. And I don't know whether it's because of the language around it. And I think we'll get more into this in a future episode when we start talking more about climate change. But this is climate change is very much on the agenda in 2006 and up for discussion. And so I feel like it goes just hand in glove with these type of things. 

And the extreme heat events just keep occurring as time goes on as well. They are major public health emergencies these days. California has obviously expanded warning systems, resilience planning, as we mentioned, welfare checks on vulnerable residents. Did you know that heat actually kills more people globally than other natural disasters combined? 

I was not aware of that. I did not realize that either. I was today years old when I found that out. I was like, wow, that's. That's annoying. And over on the other side of the world, in Australia, we're in the middle of a drought in 2006. 

The millennium drought, wasn't it? 

Is that what it was called? I think it was the millennium drought. 

I think it was the millennium drought. Yes. And because I remember all the issues for the farmers, it was really, really, really bad for all the farmers. 

It was very bad. I can remember even in 2004 when we're still on the radio, I was like, oh, I've got to go out and... do pieces with the farmers and make sure you catch the real emotion of the situation so that you can upset everybody. Yeah. which is, I mean, people obviously wanted to know what's going on, but when you're working in a music station, I don't really think hard-hitting journalism is at the forefront of your mission statement, if you know what I mean. But Toowoomba was a town that was particularly struggling. I mean, lots of regional Australia was struggling during this drought and Queensland definitely were copping a lot of it. Southeast In fact, and Toowoomba was running short on water. They needed a water source. That's pretty bad. 

Remember all the dams were running dry. 

The dams were running dry and there were photos and you could see the water lines. Water restrictions, white shocking water restrictions. 

People were fighting neighbours, remember, for watering the lawn on the wrong day. 

Remember dobbing a drip? You just have to dobbing people. 

That's right. 

Dobbing people for watering their gardens. 

But you remember there were lots of fights. Yeah, that's right. You could only water on an even. 

And odd days and all of that sort of stuff. So Toowoomba was in the throes of that. They were in big trouble. And there was this proposal that they were going to treat recycled wastewater to drinking standard and add it to the city's water supply. So you flush your toilet, it goes through the treatment works, through the recycled wastewater supplies conversion station. and turns it from sewerage into drinking water. That's what was proposed. 

So well. 

And they were like, f**k that. 

We're not doing that. That's ridiculous. There was even a referendum on the proposal. They voted. They voted and they all voted, f**k that. We're not doing that. Stick your referendum up your ***. It was a very emotional campaign. 

You might end up drinking it later. 

Dubbing the city Powoomba. There were discussions on toilet to tap. And also claims that the technology was untested. So a little bit of conspiracy theorizing going on saying it was compared with formidamide or asbestos or mad cow disease, arguing that science could not guarantee long-term safety of drinking the poo water. 

Well, maybe you can only have a couple of goes at it. Like you can only recycle a couple of times. 

Yeah, okay. 

And then who knows? What are the repercussions of when do you reach like the event horizon? I don't know, Ground Zero, where you can't, you can no longer recycle of the recycled urine. 

It's been recycled too many times. 

Any longer to extract the pure water for it? 

I would have voted no as well. I can't even handle the hint of bovine in my collagen. That just makes me gag. So this would just, no, that would send me over. 

What about Bear Grylls? He'd be all right. 

He'd be fine. Actually, they should have got him on the campaign. 

Yes. 

Because, you know, Toilet to Tap and Pawoomba was not really getting it in amongst the yes. 

Get on the **** in Toowoomba with Bear Grylls. Look, I mean, through this lens of 2026, where we've gone through, you know, back in 2006, there weren't shows like Doomsday Preppers and things like that. And I feel like recycled human waste products into pure water is a prepper's, excuse the pun, wet dream. I feel like a prepper would just love to be able to do that. 

In your bunker. 

Yeah. 

That would be handy, wouldn't this? 

And they'd be really prepper. Come down the bunker and have a look. And they'd be like, look at this, drink some of this nice pure water. And they'd be like, and then they'd be like, do you know what that is? And you'd be like, no, what is it? And he's like, that's ****. 

The process was from sewerage to advanced purification. 

Yes. 

Pumped into a dam, mixed with existing dam water, treated again through the normal drinking water plant, then to your tap. So there were many, many layers. 

But the advanced purification, that's the entry point. That's the thing that they're trying to swing on, I reckon, to just try and get over. It's advanced purification. Like how? is it advanced purification? 

I wonder if you. your Brita water filter would be capable of filtering it out for you. It's just like a massive Brita filter chucked into the sewerage blocks. 

Well, yeah, I think if you peed in it, sure, but don't be going taking a dump into the... Maybe even, I don't know. 

The 62% voted no. So there were some people that said yes. Not everyone said no. The interesting thing about it, though, was it not so much the technology, it was the public perception that became the biggest hurdle. And a fascinating case in how communication can shape the acceptance or not of science. 

Well, Peter Beattie, and you heard the grab at the start where they said, you know, that doing this was an Armageddon level thing for like a city like Brisbane or whatever, but that was like supposed to be, so 60 Minutes went to town on Peter Beattie. This is what he had to say. No premier or leader wants to devastate people's lives. I don't enjoy doing this. I'm not a *******. 

But how do I cope with an extra 1,500 people a week? How do I cope with a drought, the worst than 100 years? And how do we cope with climate change unless I build a water grid? 

I like it. How do I do this? How do I do this? How do I do this? But then we get to climate change and he's like, and how do we do this when I have to do this? I don't know, Pete. I don't know. 

Today, highly treated recycled water is a thing. It's used around the country more, not so much for drinking, doesn't come out of the tap. More for industry, irrigation and indirect portable reuse in some areas. And the technology has continued to improve as you'd expect over the years. Queensland itself has invested heavily in desalinization and the Western Corridor Recycled Water Scheme. And generally we're a little bit more accepting of the concept of recycled water than we were perhaps 20 years ago. 

I lived sort of in between the city and the country, I guess, in like I've lived in a lot of country towns, but they used to have like people that used to have like hobby farms, they'd get like instead of like massive acreage, they just get like maybe 5 to 10 acres or whatever. And they'd have down the back, they'd have like a bio cycle. system, which would recycle their water or their waste, their sewerage, and then spray it on the garden, the bio cycle. And then it'd be like, it really ruined going outside and running under the sprinkler. Put it out. I wanted to get away from the water thing because there's a... inevitably somebody would be maybe listening and thinking, what about the plan to build a dam? And I don't know enough about that and I don't want to get in a conversation about that. Because I'm not qualified. And I'm probably not qualified to talk too much about this next topic either. In the sport segment of all segments. 

I'm not qualified to talk about sport at the best of times. The first World Out Games are held on the 28th of July. 

Yeah. 

This is, well, it's not the first. It's not the first. It's not the first, but it's interesting because it was a rival games. So it was. 

It was the first one called Out Games. 

Called Out Games. And it was rivalling the Gay Games. 

Yes. 

So the Gay Games began in 1982, founded by US Olympian Tom Waddell, who wanted to create an inclusive sporting event where everybody could compete regardless of sexuality, gender identity, age, or ability. Important context. Obviously, gay athletes weren't banned from mainstream sport, but many felt that they couldn't be openly themselves. And back in the 80s, widespread homophobia, there was discrimination. 

So like you're a gay person and you win and you want to run up to the stand and hug your partner, but nobody knows you're gay. And back then, it's still a lot of people still closeted, you know, and a lot of people forced to come out of the closet against their will as well, sometimes in the mainstream media because of their their profile, which would happen to athletes. 

And particularly in team sports as well. The first time they held the Gay Games, they were originally called the Gay Olympic Games, but weeks before it began, the US Olympic Committee successfully sued over use of the word. Oh wow. They're very protective of the word and the rings and the things. 

Yes. 

So they had to rename it the Gay Games at the last time. 

Well, you've got to be protective of your rings around the Gay Games, really. 

By 2002. It had attracted around 11,000 participants and become one of the largest LGBTQI plus sporting events ever. Montreal was due to host this time 20 years. 

This is where the controversy happened. 

This is, yes, they were going to, they were awarded the 2006 Gay Games, but they had a dispute with the Federation of Gay Games over finances. And the hosting rights were then transferred to Chicago. Nope, you're not having the Gay Games. Too bad, we're taking them off you at the last minute. So rather than abandon years of planning, Montreal launched a brand new event, the first World Out Games. The arrival of the Gay Games. I love this. I love this. Opens on the 29th of July, 2006, just one week after the Gay Games finishes in Chicago. But unfortunately had to, they forced a couple, many athletes to have to choose between. 

They couldn't double dip because, again, two and self-funding as well. Like there's, I mean, I imagine there's not, there would be sponsorship, but you know, it's not, it's not like. 

It's not the same. 

Yeah, exactly. I don't think the purse for winning like a gold medal at the Gay Games could even hold a candle to winning a gold medal at the Olympics. 

No, but around 11,000 athletes from over 100 countries competed. So it was one of the largest sporting events held in Montreal since the Olympics. 

It was a big party in Montreal. I was doing a bit of research, like a lot of businesses got on board. I saw a fantastic condom commercial that was focused on the out games, which I can't even... 

Well, think about the village, yes? 

It was pretty graphic, but it was very funny. It was really cool. So there was, I guess there was sponsorship too, if that's the case. And people were on board. So Montreal just partied down. And somewhere there was a bit of sport happening in there as well. 

Lots of familiar Olympic sports, but they deliberately broadened the definition of sport to make it more inclusive and accessible. Athletics, swimming, diving, you know, run-of-the-mill rowing, cycling, tennis, volleyball, soccer, all the usuals. They also had bowling, darts, billiards, squash, racquetball, powerlifting, and dance sport. 

Dance sport. 

Dance sport. 

What pray tell is dance sport? 

Ballroom and country dancing. 

Together. 

Not together. No, probably different. 

That would have been good. 

No qualification standards. Didn't have to be among the best. You just had to enter. Culture was also part of the event. There were concerts, performances, exhibitions, and social events. And for the out games, there was an added international human rights conference, making activism a core part of the event as well as sport. And you didn't have to be gay to compete either. 

No, Well, that's inclusive. I mean, that's great. The thing is, because it had a rival competition, only one could really survive, I think. It's not sustainable to have two events that are practically the same. And really, I mean, the Gay Games has got heritage on its side. It's been going since the 80s. So this is, 2006 is the first out games. I don't think they got past... I think they went for about 11 years. 

Yes. 

So they got to 2017. And I'm imagining, did they do it every four years? 

Yes. 

So they got to 2017 and then they were just eclipsed by the Gay Games, I believe. Yeah, which is a bit of a shame. They just couldn't do it. They couldn't do it. I mean, the point of difference, I think the out games were much more into the human rights and advocacy side of things. 

It was more an event as well. 

Yes, whereas the Gay Games are a bit more sport focused. 

Yes. 

Yeah. I would say the music at the out games significantly better than the music at the Olympics. Yes. I'm not sure if it was better than the music at the Gay Games. I've got a feeling that it might have been. And it was, yeah, just slayed the Olympics, really. 

The opening and closing ceremonies would have been good. 

Spectacular. Yeah. Really good. Really good. And not quite as long either, which I think was good. 

Yes. 

Punchy, good performances, really great choreography, and exceptional costumes. Let's get into music. 

Okay, where do we want to start? 

With the charts, maybe? 

Which ones? Australia? Let's start with Australia. 

Okay. 

If I know I'm on to light, my hips don't light, I'm starting to feel it's light. All the attraction, intention, don't you see basic pieces of perfection. Boy, I can see your body moving, half and more half, man, I don't. 

Shakira, Shakira. 

New #1 in the UK for McFly. 

Now this is interesting because you've got two things here. 

I think it was a might have been a A side B side. 

So I'm assuming. Which one did you choose? Well, I got both of them. This is the A side. Don't stop me now. I'm having such a good time. 

I'm having a ball. Don't stop me now. You really want to have a good time. Are you playing that off cassette? 

So they've done, no, they've done like a Timu cover of Queens. 

Yes, but that sounds like it's on a cassette. Well, I don't know. The ghetto blaster in the 80s, that sounds terrible. 

I don't know, get by, save what you can on production. I don't know. I mean, I just think it sounds terrible because it's a really poor imitation of a Queen song, but then they did this one, which is theirs. Yeah. So it's a pop punk stuff. 

Yeah, McFly. I don't know. I didn't write anything down because I got bored. 

No, it's number one on the UK charts. I don't know how both songs can be, but something happened there. It was obviously A&B side. 

Yes, I think so. Let's go to America. 

It's going down Meet me in the mall It's going down Meet me in the club It's going down I know I'm on tonight My hips don't lie And I'm starting to feel it's right All the attraction, attention Don't you see, baby, this is protection for you Now, I've been waiting, waiting Think I'm. 

Gonna make the move Now, baby, tell me if you like it Tell me if you like it. 

I think you're crazy. 

Promiscuous girl, whatever you are, I'm all alone and it's you that I want. 

Promiscuous boy, you already know. Yeah, I'm all gone, what you waiting for? 

Top five. Yeah. 

Nelly Furtado, promiscuous one. Crazy, #2, Me and You, #3, Hips Don't Lie. It's going down #5. I think pretty much the same songs, but a couple of just... 

Not very enthused. Not very enthused by the Billboard charts at the moment. 

Got nothing new to say, because I think we've covered all of them previously. 

And if I'm being honest, it might be like this for a week or two. Maybe even 3. Yeah. So, what do you want to do now? 

Well, we can talk about an album release. 

Okay. 

There's an album that was released on the 25th, Pharrell, In My Mind. 

Can I have it like that? You got it like that. Can I have it like that? You got it like that. Can I have it like that? You got it like that. So, drop your purse and grab your hips and act like you're trying to get this money right quick. So, can I have it like that? You got it like that. Can I have it like that? You got it like that. 

Oh, Pharrell, what was that? Can I have it like that? That's what it was called. 

With Gwen Stefani. 

Yes. I guess you can if you like. It's very Neptune sounding. 

Yeah. R&B. 

That's straight too far away from his own kind of sound that he's carved. Neptune's fun. 

Production. I think the conversational element, what everyone was talking about was more the guest side of things. Kanye, Jay-Z, Gwen, obviously as we heard. 

Gwen Stefani, yes. 

Slim Thug. 

Slim Thug was in there as well. 

What was he on? He was on someone else's song recently. We were talking about him. I don't know. 

I can't keep up with them. 

No, neither can I. think Can I Have It Like That was the biggest song off that album. Critics were divided. It was a bit, whatever. I think he was just... Bigger for his production around this time, I think. 

This is before Happy, isn't it? 

This is before Happy, yeah. Happy's around 2013, 2014. 

Oh wow, it's a long time before it. 

But he's done the, what's the one that he did? He did Drop It Like It's Hot. Oh yeah, it's already happened. 

And Neptune's has been happening for a bit as well. So Neptune's, NERD happened. 

Oh, he produced all the Timberlake. 

Yeah, so he's just starting to kind of... Push his own brand, but very subtle. I mean, it's not that subtle. Look at all the guests he's got. 

Yes, he's popular. 

I think he's just showing that he's respected in the community. 

Popular guy. 

I'm respected in the community. Look, I've got all these other people here. 

Look at all my friends. 

All of my respectful friends from the, you know, I mean, it'd be like, it's like when you get sponsored to kind of join like a bowls club or something, you know? You have to have, you have to have somebody who's already a member to sponsor the win. I don't know if it happens in the bowls club. 

Really. 

It depends on how exclusive the bowls club is, I guess. I don't know. 

I think Pharrell was the biggest news story in music this time, 20 years. No. There was a very big announcement made through People Magazine on the 26th of July, 2006, after years of rumours. One interview with People Magazine changed everything for one of the world's biggest boy band stars. 

But I mean, will we just like, well, yeah, that confirms it. I think it was a big news, it was big news in entertainment reporting circles. I just, I mean, I get it because I mean, he himself said, in the teaser, if you'd come out in the 90s, then your career would be over. And we're talking about Lance Bass. 

From NSYNC. Yes. And he'd spent quite a few years at this stage facing speculation about his sexuality. And Later said that he didn't want to hurt the group's success and disappoint fans. But he did it. And he did it because he wanted, at the time, he said he wanted to stop hiding who he was. 

But also, at the time. NSYNC is kind of no more anyway, right? Like they're done for. 

Well, they didn't know to be like right off. 

But he was, I mean, it's been a while too. And Lance is like, I'm not going to sit here and wait around forever. I'm just, but, and we'll get, we'll get to more of it. So he does actually, I mean, it's been a year is what I'm trying to say. 

He, a lot of quotes from the story and people around, I'm not ashamed. That's the one thing I want to say, I'm not ashamed. I'm more liberated and happy than I've been in my whole life. And I knew that I was in this popular band and I had four other guys' careers in my hand because a lot of people were saying, why did you keep this from us? Particularly the female fans of NSYNC. There were a lot of outraged fans. 

Oh, because they were Lance girls. 

Yes. 

Right. 

Yes. I mean, he did get a fair bit of backlash. And we say it now, we're like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, whatever. But 2006, it actually was a big deal. There wasn't a lot particularly in music, heartthrob, young boy banders, who had come out as gay at this point in time. 

No, and there was an assumption that even though these squeaky clean pop guys were all hetero. 

And the labels at the time, but the labels at the time as well, wanted the screaming female fan base. So even, I think, even if he had perhaps wanted to make this announcement earlier on, there probably would have been some argy-bargy, I would say, which I think is. 

Crazy, because if they had have done it, maybe they would have had the screaming female fan base and the screaming male fan base. 

Well, potentially, potentially. 

Look, everyone's like glass half full with this thing. It's like, oh, if you come out as gay, it's the end of your career. It's like, mate, you're just opening up the market to a whole bunch of blokes as well. 

It wasn't, no, it was, it was unheard, like Ricky Martin. 

I know, it was unheard of. And you could imagine the pressure. And you imagine, like, we're talking still like bubblegum magazines and all of that sort of stuff. So it's not just, it's not just music going onto the charts and albums, it's merchandise, it's school folders, it's t-shirts, it's dolls, it's like all sorts of stuff. 

Very big Christian fan bases over in America as well. And you think back to the female pop stars and the whole virginity, I'm waiting till I'm getting married kind of rhetoric. Similar for the guys, it was like, it was very real. So there was a lot of hate for him from religious community as well for it. And I think he grew up in quite a religious area. And he's reflected on how he growing up, like, because he said that he knew that he was gay from when he was five or six. And he was saying that he used to just want to wake up and wish that he wasn't because he was from a really religious community and family. And that was such a sin. But he was He was also really worried about the harm that it would do to the band and his friends in the band. And he spoke about it on this interview recently with Richard Marx of all people. 

You're in this group, you're teen idols, you're dealing with a level of success that the point, what is it, you know, less than 1% of people deal with. And are you thinking I can't be? authentic. I can't come out. I can't. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was horrible as an artist. Horrible, because you're not yourself. Right. I look at anything I did with NSYNC, interviews, music, videos. And I don't even recognize myself because you can tell I'm like, I just wanted to disappear. I didn't want to show myself because I thought people would figure it out if I talked too much, if I, you know. And if they figured it out, you thought the band was over. And the sad thing is it would have been. It would have been. Let's just. At that time, probably. It would have been. I'm sorry, but like in the 90s, if you were gay, especially in a group like this, your career, is over. 

I find it really hard to understand how people could even give a **** about other people's sexuality. Like it's none of their business. But in that world at that time, I mean, like you said, it's like the merchandise and stuff, but you have done it. I guess pop music is very sexually charged as well. So on the flip side of it, because it's like, well, why does he need to or whatever? And like, if he's an artist and yes, he's in the bubblegum pop machine or whatever it is, but But at some stage, that desire to express yourself is going to come out, and then you're going to want to come out with that, I guess. What I find funny is, he has the most masculine voice out of anyone in that band. 

Did he want to come out, though, is the question. So he was saying that he's more liberated and happy than he's ever been in the interview itself. But there was actually behind the scenes a lot of pressure. 

Look, I think he probably did want to come out, but I think he would have liked to have come out more. 

On his own terms, right? Yeah, and I mean, he said that this... this feature in people was on his own terms. But it was on his own terms in so much as if he didn't do it, someone else was going to. So from 2005, I think it sort of started with Perez Hilton. And he'd been posting about Lance's sexuality, repeatedly suggesting that he was gay, mocking him for being closeted. I remember this. It was relentless. And it wasn't just Lance. There was a lot of celebrities that he did this to. And he He believed that outing them was justified because greater visibility would help acceptance of gay people. 

This guy, this guy. 

Is that really what you thought, mate? Or were you just trying to get clicks on your website? 

I'm happy, I'm happy to stand here today in this podcast, or even sit in this chair, which is what I'm doing, if I'm being honest, and just say that I think Perez Hilton is an utter ***** ** ****. And I don't think that there's any redeeming qualities about him. Even when you see him crying for forgiveness on me, they're like, just f**k off, mate. Like, you're just a ***** ** ****. 

But he's still doing it. He's still doing the same shtick now that he was then. 

He's just one of these, if anything, he's a trailblazer for that. 

At the time, though, people were consuming it. 

Yeah, well, he's a trailblazer and a perpetuator and an enabler for that bottom feeding, you know, controversy, clickbait. It's just, but it all starts because he's online, Perez, and he's phenomenal. 

And it's instant. It's gritty. 

The groundswell is bigger and it happens a lot quicker and it gets more popular and it becomes this. horrible, addictive thing for people who can obviously go, oh, I can do what that guy's doing and capitalize on other people's misery and throw stones and do all that sort of stuff on the internet. But it catches up with you, man. Like it catches up with you. 

He famously said, if I have to drag some people screaming out of the closet, then I will. 

That's revolting. 

He was proud of that. 

Is such a revolting thing to say. 

When blogs became really popular, you know, and Perez Hilton and, you know, those type of people, Those are the ones that really started attacking me and really trying to pull me out of the closet, but not in a very healthy way. 

Trying to pull him out of the closet. I think that's definitely a good way to describe it. So July 2006, which is now that we're talking about, this is where it all reaches kind of critical mass, doesn't it? Because he gets photographed. in a gay holiday destination in Massachusetts, in Provincetown, I think it's called, with a reality TV winner and model by the name of Reichen Lemkul, who was later confirmed to be his boyfriend. 

The New York Post's page 6 gossip column also reported seeing them together at a gay bar, taking the story from Perez's blog gossip into mainstream tabloids And years later, Lance said that the bloggers, including Perez, essentially gave him a 24-hour ultimatum. Come out yourself or we'll do it for you. 

Wow. So bullied him. They just bullied him into coming out. Could you, I mean, I just think about how, you know, if that happens today, and look, it has kind of happened in recent times. I'm trying to think of a specific example and nothing's kind of coming to mind at the moment, but the repercussions for people doing that, they is more severe. Like it's like all the, it's, nobody's like, directing their pitchforks and torches towards the person who was forced to come out, as opposed to the person who's bullied them to come out. We can kind of identify that these days and call it out. But back then, people were eating it up. 

Yeah, And in 2006, like we said, it was really, it was really uncommon. He revealed that he'd lost acting roles in a TV sitcom after coming out because executives thought audiences wouldn't believe He wouldn't be a believable straight character after coming out as gay. So he lost work because of it. 

Did he still get to go to space? 

He's never been to space, has he? 

Oh, I don't think he has been to space, has he? No. Because he was in with the Russians. 

Yeah, but then he had the heart thing, the dodgy hearts. Yes. 

So, oh, well, that's a bit sad. 

What do you think about today? 

Yeah. 

There are so many artists that actually begin their careers openly gay. 

Yeah. 

It's no one cares. It's not even a thing. It's not, it's just like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, I'm gay. Or you find out and people are just like, yes, so. 

Nobody cares. So what? That's what I mean. We've come a long way, really. 

To think what he went through and you know, he's a young guy. He's hitting puberty and his other bandmates are dating all these famous women, you know, like Justin Smith. Britney and people are asking who's his girlfriend and asking him questions. Like the pressure on him is just, it's just unbelievable. But you think if it was today, nobody would care? 

I feel really bad for him. Like imagine being out on the road. It's like when you're the designated driver and everyone else is just getting sh*t faced and you've got to just put up with their crap. I imagine that's what it would kind of be like. 

I don't know. In that interview that it's a really, you should watch the full interview if you get a chance with on Richard Marx's podcast. It's really good and it's him and it's who's the who's the one the one that did the song that we like? JC should say. 

Oh, JC should say. 

It's him and JC, just those two. I'm just hanging out, talking to Richard Marx. 

Shooting the breeze. 

It's a really interesting interview. Today, Lance is married to artist Michael Turchin and they have twins, I think twin daughters. He is He's very active on the socials. He's got his own podcast called Frosted Tips, which is really good, and does a lot of gay advocacy work as well. There was the brief reunion of NSYNC too recently. 

And I think the fans, I think the fans speak for themselves. They don't care either, really. I think, if anything, the fan base is probably more galvanized because of, you know, Lance. another fan base that's really staunch, strong, it's Neighbours fans. 

Oh, crazy. Yeah, it's like this. 

Yeah, And they especially go crazy when one of their own releases a single. I don't want to make another mistake like you And I don't want to hate But love doesn't get me through It is the Veronicas before the Veronicas. 

It does sound like the Veronicas. 

Yeah. This is a prototype for the Veronicas. I know. Yeah. Maybe they should cover it. That would be respectful. Yeah. You know. 

Yeah, that's nice. 

Stephanie McIntosh from Neighbours. 

Who was she? was a Scully, wasn't she? 

I think she was a Scully. It was sort of getting really starting to get out of the period. She was a blonde. 

She was blonde, isn't she? 

I don't think I'd watch Neighbours for a decade by this stage. 

Yeah. 

I've got no idea. But she did release her date. her debut single, Mistake, which you would have heard there, which debuted at #3 on the Australian ARIA Singles Charts, which means I think it sold about 25 copies. 

Debut album, Tightrope, followed later on in the year. A little bit of success initially, but her music career was quite short-lived. 

Like I said, she was walking in the footsteps of giants, and she just couldn't feel those giant footsteps. 

Kylie, Jason. 

Jason, Craig McLaughlin. 

Holly Valance. 

Oh, Holly Valance. 

Oh, wow. Hasn't she just popped back up out of it? 

Footsteps of giants. Yeah. 

Lately, yes. 

Yeah, good old Holly Valance, you know, waving the flag for the plight of the common man while she's married to a boon man. 

I told you how I had to go and I interviewed her. I interviewed her in an apartment hotel in Forest. Yeah, When I got to meet her. 

She was a bit of a ***** wasn't she? Can I say that? Can I say that? 

Look, she wasn't she wasn't overly rude. She wasn't overly friendly either. She just sort of sat there and just, you know, a couple of word answers to the questions. But I mean, she looked lovely. She looked lovely. It was a nice apartment. It was a very fancy apartment. That's about all I remember of that. I could smell her makeup. 

Did you talk politics with her? 

No, we didn't. We didn't talk politics. I didn't ask for her worldviews. Perhaps I should have? 

Because I know when I'm trying to figure out which way to swing when I'm voting or, looking for world news and views. These days, I don't go to social media. I certainly don't go to TikTok or Facebook. I go direct to the source. I go to Holly Vance. Yes, she had. 

I could smell. I could smell her foundation. She had really. 

You could smell her foundation. 

I don't know. Back in the early 2000s, makeup had a smell. And I could smell. I can still smell it. I could smell her makeup. She had a lot of makeup on. She looked lovely. She looked lovely. 

Almost sociopathic. 

But I could smell it. 

I could smell your makeup, Holly. 

I didn't tell her that. I didn't tell her. I just thought it. I just thought about it. Delta Goodrum was another one. 

Oh, yes. Out of a neighbour's stable. 

Who I also interviewed. I don't think she liked me very much either. We've talked about that before. Natalie Bassing Thwaites. 

Oh, yes. The Rogue Traders fame. 

Is the Rogue Traders a thing? No, that's probably more. No, that's later 2000s. 

You're not too far off. 

Stephen Dennis. What did Stephen Dennis do? 

Stephen Dennis. Paul. Paul Robinson. I was going to say, is there a bloke in there? 

It's on the list. I don't know. I'm going to look it up. You can. 

I think our homework for this week is, I know, because we record 2 weeks back to back. So our homework for a fortnight's time is. Can you find it now? No, I can find it now. Oh, dig it up now. We'll do lo-fi just straight off the phone. 

Stefan Dennis. 

Stefan Dennis. 

Oh, Songza. 

Oh, well, he's done a full album. 

OK. 

Yeah. Who is the who is the label? Like K-Tel? Dino Music. 

Dino. 

Out now on Dino Music. Oh. 

Don't it make you feel good? 

I thought you were playing like 3 songs at once then. All right. Yeah, it's got some Yaz. 

That's 80s. 

Some Yaz vibes. Go to the chorus. Can we get to the chorus? 

Oh, I remember this. 

Oh, yeah. Go get him, Paul Robinson. 

It was before he turned into evil Paul. 

Was it? 

Wow. 

Gonna make him feel good. And then I'm gonna... There's other songs. 

There's more than that. He had a few. 

Did he? 

Yes. 

Good for him. 

But Stephanie, let's go back to Stephanie. 

Stephanie McIntosh, yes. 

Stepped away from music and acting after some health challenges. 

Oh, that's no good. Yeah. 

She's largely stayed out of the spotlight of recent years. And... 

We all know the neighbour's story as well, on again, off again. Where is it now? You can still watch it on the internet, I think. 

They've all came back, didn't it? 

Well, you could go back to watch 2006 episodes with Stephanie Mackintosh in them when she was at the peak of her fame. I just, I really do. I feel like that song is probably written by whoever's writing songs for the Varmacos. 

Play it again. Let's have another listen. Let's give her another listen. Oh, I need to do a massive retraction. She was not a Scully. She was Sky Mangle. 

Oh, she's a Mangle. 

Yeah, Mrs. Mangle must have been her granddaughter. 

Oh, yep, Joe Mangle's daughter. 

Oh, that's her. There you go. She's lovely. 

Oh, I remember her. Yes. Who wrote the song? Was it the same people that wrote the Veronicas? 

I don't know. I wasn't looking at the song. I was looking up. 

That's what I thought you were looking up. 

She worked. with songwriter-producer Tom Nichols, who wrote and produced for Jessica Simpson, Lindsay Lohan, Kylie Minogue, S Club Seven, and Atomic Kitten. I can't see any Veronicas in there. No. Oh. 

Well, I think that they should sue the Veronicas. Maybe they could get, was there any lawyers on Ramsay Street? Oh yeah, Toadfish was a lawyer. Did Toadfish Rebecca to go and handle the copyright case? Yeah. I feel like music kind of morphed into entertainment, TV, anyway. 

Well, Stephanie probably could have gone in this way, actually. And now that I think about it, there is only one story in here, so I should have put it in this one. 

It's pretty rubbish otherwise because. 

Pirates, Pirates of the Caribbean is #1 in the box office in the USA and Australia. 

Yes, great. Thank you. That just made the segment so much better. 

You be welcome. 

So yes, we do only have one story. 

Scary dog. 

And we're going to talk about all the pageant. The pageant, Miss Universe. 

Oh, the pageant. 

Miss Universe is on the door. 

They walk the plank, they walk down the catwalk. All right, I'll leave it. I'll go back to be ship. And so Miss Universe. 

Yes, And look, should have been the happiest moment in Miss Puerto Rico's life. 

Oh, she, but she fainted. 

She won and then fainted. 

She passed out. What do you realise? 

During celebrations. Do you not remember this? She faints on stage. 

Because I remember the moment like that. 

The first runner up is Japan. And so Miss Universe 2006 is Miss Puerto Rico. 

That's really ****** me off, because when I got that, I should have hung her out for a bit longer to see you hit the deck. She went down like a bucket of spuds. 

You didn't remember this one. No. They said later on, what was her name? Zulekia Rivera. They said later on it was dehydration, heavy makeup, and the weight of the gown. Oh, it was a heavy gown. Her gown was too heavy. 

Really. 

Probably the crown. 

Yeah, the crown and the train, and it's you being pulled in both directions. 

All the makeup. 

Yeah. 

But she recovered quickly and completed her duties. 

She did very well with her duties, because you know how, like, they have the ballroom section and the swimsuit section, and then there's the other section, but then there's the question section. They ask them questions, and this This was her question. 

This question comes from the reigning Miss Universe. 

It sounds. 

Like he must be a millionaire. It's the definition of success with us, but they need to translate. 

Satisfaction is when the human being. has really fulfilled all of his or her goals and has realized all the work that they have done. 

Not extending whatever obstacles they may run across. 

Because obstacles are something that make you strong and make you know you do have those qualities, as you see. Puerto Rico. Thank you very much. Thank you. Puerto Rico. The crowd loved it. 

I feel like that was cheating because she had longer to think because she had a part B while he was translating. She's like, oh. 

And that's where she's like, I need a word. She was like, no, that was ****. 

I was so generic. I need to come up with something. Obstacles. Obstacles are always something. 

No, She's like, I need a word. I need a word. And it's like, ding. Notwithstanding. 

Yeah, I was surprised by the notwithstanding. The translator could have just chucked that in though. 

Yeah. Who knows? I thought, look, I thought it was a pretty good answer. 

I thought the first half was generic. I think she cheated. And she was like, I've got to redeem myself. I'm going to think of an extra bit while he's yapping on translating me. 

I was listening to the Puerto Rican accent. I was confused when the guy started talking. I was like, what? I would love to be cursed out in that Puerto Rican accent. Could you imagine? I mean, you know, good looks and then that Puerto Rican accent, that fire. Amazing. I just can't believe I missed her passing out. That's terrible. Was she? Was she OK? 

That was just fine. Well, she did her duties. I told you that. She did her duties. 

What are her duties? 

I don't know, the pageant things. They had to do stuff, remember? Because Trump's still the boss at this stage and he just made them do a bunch of crap for a year. Yeah, they were very busy. I remember Jen Hawkins, so busy. 

She was busy, yeah. 

To do so many things. 

Yeah, face of bonds and stuff. I don't think she was allowed to be the face of bonds till after. 

No, till after. This is busy doing Miss Universe sh*t. 

For like 4 months. She's trying to save the universe. I mean, it's very difficult. You've got a whole universe to administer when you're Miss Universe. So, I mean, I didn't even think about it. I'm thinking she's got all these jobs that she's got to do on Earth, but what about the poor old Gamma Quadrant? I mean, you know, she's got to get out there and go and do her. Universe things there. Oh, quick, quick, clean up the Gamma Quadrant. Miss Universe is coming next week. Better make sure that we are, you know, make sure that Zurg has sorted out all the red carpet and stuff like that. Oh, we don't have red carpet on this planet. Oh, that's going to offend somebody somewhere, notwithstanding. But they don't even have it now, do they, Miss Universe? Is it still a thing? 

I think it does. 

We talk about it every year and we're like, where is it now? Is it still a thing? 

It does, but it's different. It's different. There's no trumping of this thing. 

Oh, that's disappointing. 

But look, it was frowned upon. So I think they've evolved it. And I'm sure we did talk about it. I think we talked about it, trying to be more inclusive and it didn't really work. 

Maybe they should just, if they bring it back more old school, maybe then Trump will be distracted. He'll go, he'll be like, oh no, I've got to go and help Miss Universe perform all the universe duties. I've got a whole universe to look after over there. You were talking about multiverses at the start, and then we've got Miss Universe, and I feel like we've had like some multiverses in this episode. 

Like living in parallel or something. 

Well, possibly. I mean, you're reading a book, I'm watching the movie. I mean, that says more about who we are as people. And I did say she was the brains of the operation. Anyway, it's a hatches, matches and dispatches clue. Oh, yes. Sans multiverse. Although I did feel like I was in a multiverse when this particular one happened. This one's a match. A celebrity who got married this time 20 years ago who said this? 

You have to be able to be alone too before you can be with somebody else. So I feel like I'm just kind of growing up right now. It's taken a long time. 

If you said Pamela Anderson, you would be correct. Pamela Anderson married Kid Rock on the 29th of July 2006, much to everyone's shock and dismay. 

I loved it. I loved the wedding. Because that was where she was wearing the white bikini. 

I was just like, oh. 

It was made in the bikini. I loved it. 

Not again. 

I loved it. And I just, it was unlikely. I didn't, yeah, I didn't expect it. They'd been dating though. They'd been on again, off again since I think 2001. 

Yeah. 

So, you know, they'd been together for a while, but it was still a bit unexpected. I think they, I think they're engaged earlier, then they broke up, then they reunited, and then they get married this time 20 years ago. Multiple celebrations, including on a yacht near France, and that was when she wore the white bikini. 

Which, I mean, she looked great. Gee, she looked good. 

Lots of celebrities from both the bride and groom's sides. Lots of parties in Beverly Hills and Nashville. 

Yeah. 

Perfectly captured that over the top celebrity culture. 

But I think, I would just like, what is she doing? Like, why is she, not this again, you know, not this again. 

And look, I didn't mind Kid Rock at that stage. 

Well, I mean, at that stage it was like, oh, he's a rock'n'roller, he's a bit of a wild child, he's a little bit redneck, but he's also a little bit rebellious as well. And what is he now? He's playing golf with the president. Like, what a sellout. And so, Really interesting though, because when you look at that and then you look at Pammy, they seem not to be mentally aligned. 

Worlds apart these days. 

Yes. Yeah. Mentally aligned made it sound like they were crazy, but I mean, they're not, they don't, they don't, they don't think the same. 

Different values. 

They got different values systems. Wow, that was a struggle for me. I apologise. Brains of the operation over to you. 

They separate after just a few months and officially divorce in 2007. 

And then everyone went, oh yeah, thank goodness. Now I'm in with a shot. 

The reason, the rumours were they got divorced because Kid Rock was angry about the jokes about Pammy in the film Borat that caused a lot of tension. 

I remember Borat kidnapped Pamela Anderson in the film. 

And he didn't like, yes, and he made some jokes. And Kid Rock didn't like the jokes. And Pammy's like, oh, don't worry, Borat, come on. 

His offsider was making a hand party over Pamela. Yes. 

They had a big fight and got divorced. Yeah. They moved on, both of them. 

This was a passion and turbulence. 

That was how they described it. 

So Tommy Lee, Mark 2, Timu, Timu, Tommy Lee. I mean, she's been through it with, I mean, Tommy Lee, the Tommy Lee situation, she always says that, you know, he was her first and only love, but I mean, they went through some stuff. Like there was, it was not a healthy relationship. There's a lot of, there's domestic violence and stuff. And I just think at this stage, even though she's, and that's why when she was with Kid Rockover, I was like, not again. But I think the reason why she separated so soon after is because like, she was like, well, yeah, no, not again. Like she was more tolerant. She didn't tolerate that stuff. She kind of, she'd grown up a lot, I think, and knew how to look after herself. And I mean, she's pretty footloose and fancy free. She's one of those people that loves those big whirlwind romances. and stuff. It doesn't always work out that well. Not very practical, but definitely passionate, I guess. 

And I love the bikini. I thought that was nice. 

I love the bikini too. Kid Rock, I'm sure, love the bikini as well. But I mean, she's got this gorgeous Pamela Anderson and weedy little Kid Rock. I think when you look at it in the context of where are they now, though, I think Pamela Anderson's come out on top. She's undergoing a wonderful career renaissance now. And I think a lot of people, you know, we've spoken about it before, have realized that I mean, it's just you look at the Pamela story, you look at the Lance Bass story, you look at all those stories. We were never particularly kind to our icons, our celebrities, were we? Yeah, I don't know if we've learned anything from that or gotten any better at it of recent times because Celebrity is, it's different these days, isn't it? It's very, there's different levels to it. And it seems like the level that is the one that pays the highest is also the lower level of celebrity when you look at, I mean, but that's influencers pretending to be rich. 

I'd like to think we're more tolerant these days, though, of people's choices and how people want to live their lives. I feel like we're a bit. 

I don't know. 

We're a bit kinder. 

I don't know. We've got comment sections that people shout at them at. And what I love about that is at least people can screenshot them and share them with other people. You can go, hey, what an *******. But then, you know, I don't know. if anything's changed. I think people, maybe we're at our core still the same. That's a really down way to look at the end of the show. 

Thanks. 

So, well, on the brighter side, you know, what's happening? I was the one that said that Lance Bass has opened himself up to a whole new audience. as well. Now, they could have, again, I think they could have made more money from the gay audience anyway. But that's fine. I mean, we're not making money from any audience here at the moment, and we're at the end of the show. So what do we got next week? 

Oh, a very unlikely hashtag collab. Tony Blair and Arnold Schwarzenegger are teaming up to save the world. 

Oh, wow. 

That's exciting, isn't it? 

That sounds like a movie. Yeah. 

It does, it does. And oh wow, we've got a video clip. I think it's an Australian brand. I think it is. It was one of the first music video clips to go viral on YouTube. Really. 

No, not an Australian band. I think I know who you're talking about. I don't think they're Australian. 

UK, baby. 

UK band, pretty short. 

And big premiere of Kathy Griffin, Life on the D-List. 

Oh. 

That's 20 years old. 

Can't wait for that. Yeah, those stories and more next week on T-minus 20. Thanks very much for listening. Hey, like it's good. We appreciate it. It's a pretty good thing. If you want to continue the fun, you can come and find us on the site. Basically, Facebook and Instagram, I think, are the best places to go. 

Yeah, but not so much now that I'm reading. 

She's reading books and I'm watching. 

I do still check the DMs. If you've got a boom, I will find it. I will notice it. I've got a boom alert. 

Oh, there you go. 

So, yeah. 

Don't we all, especially with our parents at the age they are these days. Anyway, that's enough for this week. We'll catch you next week. See ya. 

Thanks for taking the time to rewind. Join us next time for another week it was 20 years ago. In the meantime, come and reminisce on the socials. Search for T-Minus 20 Podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok.